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I've already had a Family member and a best friend warn me that it was prophesied in the last days that even the very elect would be deceived. They ask me, "How do I know that I'm not just being deceived? First I try not to laugh, then I ask them, "who prophesied that?" Of course, they have no idea. It's a Mormon Doctrine, folklore, just like Salt Lake will be the wickedest city in the world, blah, blah, blah. Then I say that the Bible warns of False Prophets in the last days that will lead people astray and "how do they know that Joseph Smith and Hinckley aren't false Prophets?" Of course, that burning in their bosom is what tells them it's true!! Forget common sense, study or knowledge, it's all about warm fuzzy feelings.
I just mess with them because of course, they are "TBM's"(Truly Blinded Mormons) and wouldn't know the truth if it smacked them in the head. Hinckley could marry two women today in the middle of State street and they'd believe it was commanded of God. I tell them that I will pray and fast for them, that they will be able to find out the Church is false..lol!! Then, like my best friend, they usually bear their testimony to me. It's hard to keep a straight face when they keep saying I know this and I know that, when I used to say the same thing. I just find humor in how sure I was and how sure they are now when they won't even look at any evidence at all. They really think that they can bring me back to the "truth" and that I'm being deceived by Satan. Of course, they don't want to hear a thing about what I've discovered about the Church, because they know it's true, God told them so. Anyway, we can only hope that with the Internet and word of mouth, etc, it will just keep spreading, the growth slowing,etc.
Whoever said that the growth was slowing more outside of the US is correct I believe. After all, that's where all of the explosive growth came from in the 80's and 90's, South & Central America especially. However, now that well is beginning to dry up. Maybe they need to hit the sun and the moon to start baptizing those people. In my former mission....one area that I was in that was supposed to grow so much, still has a branch in each city and is still a District. In another area where I was, the Branch is gone!! I was in a big city that was made a stake right before I left and it still is a Stake with 6 wards and the activity is awful. This was a city that had over 6,500 members of record and on a good week right now, they get around 300 combined in all the wards or about 50 a ward which is what it was when I left.
It has been over a decade since I left, so with all the baptisms in the last 10+ years, they have the same number of people coming to Church each week. Not a good sign if the Morg thinks they are growing. I'm sure this is the case in many places, especially in South & Central America, as we learned from the Census Stats. The Church has been banging the drum of baptisms for decades, bragging about their growth, filling the earth like that rock and if that starts to really dry up, well, everyone will begin to take note, especially the current members. It's already happening in South and Central America.
It's a long process, but little by little, the Church will continue to shrink. It certainly peaked in the late 80's to mid 90's and I honestly feel that they will never see those days again. The Church will most likely exist forever but what size will it be? Of course, we already know that the 12,250,000 that they claim as members is over inflated dramatically and that at the most, 3,000,000- 4,000,000, are active. That doesn't bode well for their future if they plan to grow to 50,000,000 or 100,000,000, etc. It will never happen as long as things continue as they currently are. Now if they dig up the hill Cumorah and find billions of bones and millions of breastplates, swords, helmets, etc, that would be another matter, but as we all know here, that isn't gonna happen either.
I was just getting a little sick of this "TBM" and many others, such as one of my good friends and their "stupid" arguments that they are making regarding racism in the Church and its History. Also, as I was trying to talk with this "TBM" the other day regarding these issues, He responded but not to my questions about what BY and JS said. He only wanted to talk about Hinckley and the "more good" BS from Larry King. Of course, why would he want to address the "real questions" when there are simply no answers whatsoever to justify the racism without making themselves look like racists. I have yet to hear any "TBM" or any so called apologist respond to these things. I'm sure somebody has but I just haven't read it yet. I'm going to talk about what BY said, but I find Joseph Smith boasting, right out of "Official Church History", that he is greater than Jesus Christ and not a polygamist, about a month before dying, to be pretty damning as well. I'll post more about JS some other time.
I actually got my die-hard "TBM" friend to say that it would indeed bother him greatly if Joseph Smith actually said that, but he was sure that he didn't and would never say something like that because he was a man of God. I showed him the proof and have yet to hear back from him.What a surprise!! Of course, he's too lazy to drag his lazy ass over to the library or Deseret Book to see it for himself. This same friend also has no problems with Brigham Young, Orson Pratt and many others racist comments. They were just speaking as men at that moment, even if the rest of the speech was inspired, just that part slipped into uninspired, then back to inspired. The mental gymnastics that are required to be a "TBM" is more than I can bear, that's for sure.
He's actually convinced that anything negative against the Church has either been forged or changed by an Anti-Mormons and couldn't possibly be true.
He said that he would "actually have to enter into the Churches vault and see it for himself and even then, he couldn't be sure." See what we are dealing with here and what the Church has created? I asked if buying it from Deseret Book might suffice and he then said that, "yeah, that might work." Now, this is a guy with a very open mind, able to talk about anything, except the Church possibly being false. Anyway, like I've said, I have yet to hear back from him. I wish him luck on getting into the vault. According to his "TBM" brother, they won't have a problem letting him in...LOL!! Any member can go there whenever they want to do research.....yeah right!! Anyway, on to what I wanted to talk about.
How could you possibly find a way to justify killing black people if they marry white people and white people for mixing with the seed of Cain. It appears from that statement that he would be justified in killing both people, right? He would have to kill the black and the white for mixing, in order to clean up the situation, you know the whole "blood atonement" thing would kick in, thus justifying the murders and showing others what would happen to them if they did it. It would just be another one of his object lessons which he was know for regarding the "blood atonement."
Here is the exact quote that I'm talking about:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 10, p. 110).
Also, notice that it was "death on the spot", no questions asked, no trial, nothing, just instant death for mixing with the seed of Cain. Wow!! I mean how could anyone say that this evil racist piece of trash was inspired of God let alone a Prophet chosen of God. He was a vile human being of the worst kind and that's just one statement that BY made.
I could go on all day long with the BS that spewed out of his mouth and over the pulpit in the Salt Lake Tabernacle. There is no question that Brigham Young hated black people and he made no secret about it, after all, they were the seed of Cain, a dirty, loathsome people in his eyes and many others in the Church.
But then when you consider that according to the Mormon God, God himself is a complete racist, not allowing blacks to have the Priesthood until 1978, then I guess we can better understand why his Personal oracle, Prophet, Seer and Revelator, would also have to be a racist. After all, God would remove him if he led the people astray. Give me a break!!
Also, along those lines, the Church has never explained why it was that black women couldn't enter into the temple until black men got the Priesthood? Why were they also punished for Cains transgression? What did the black men not being able to have the Priesthood, have to do with them entering the temple? So it wasn't against just black men, it was against all blacks, men and women!! What's up with that? I guess women do get the Priesthood after all? I would love to hear someone ask Hinckley that question....I can hear his response now....."I don't know, I don't know....that's in the past..it was their interpretation.....little "flecks" of history.....I was just in Africa, we just built a temple there.....the people love us..blah blah blah!!"
Why hasn't the Church ever come out and said, "we are sorry, BY was a Racist." How can they not say they are sorry for all of the racist statements that were made by Prophets and Apostles? Instead, they blame it all on God, it's his fault. It was all in his time, they had no control over what was said or taught or when blacks got the Priesthood. Good thing President Kimball prayed about it, man, can you imagine the Church today banning blacks, it would be a PR nightmare.
Also, it had nothing to do with the people in Brazil that were being baptized and given the Priesthood before the Church found out that they had black heritages from Africa. What would God do if these awful black people entered into his holy house, even if they had 1/10 black blood? I guess it would defile the "House of the Lord." There was just a literal crisis in the Church regarding Brazil and something had to be done and fast!! Can everyone see just how evil and unbelievable these teachings and beliefs were?
They feel like giving the Blacks the Priesthood took care of all past sins regarding the "race" issue but it didn't. Building a new temple in Africa doesn't take away the sting of what BY said. Do you think those Africans waiting in line, that most likely don't have Internet access, know what BY, other Prophets and Apostles have said regarding specifically, "the African race." Not a chance in hell they know!!
They will always be considered a racist Church until they say three simple words, "we are sorry." Is it really that hard? Here's the problem, if they do, they are admitting that BY wasn't inspired along with many others and basically it is a can of worms with long lasting implications that help to prove and show the Church to be a complete uninspired, racist fraud. So, will they ever apologize? The answer is no!! They can't afford to!!
I hope that I'm wrong, the black people from before and now deserve an apology, but I just don't see it happening, ever!! To date, there has only been one black GA/Seventy, Helvécio Martins and he was released in 1995.
All we have to do is open the Ensign from this past May and look at the GA page. That shows us all we need to know, not one black person, not one. Only in Mormon land could someone find a way to justify racism and blame it all on God. The stupidity and lack of any common sense just goes on and on and on........
Yeah, I heard the best defense yet the other day from my "TBM" friend. He said that growing up, they used to listen to some "Mormon History" tapes at home. I guess he has complete and total retention which is amazing since he has been away from home now for at least 15 years and this happened when he was like 7-10 years old.
Anyway, his point was, as we discussed the whole polygamy deal, aka fornication, rape and adultery, that it was common back then in those days for 8 year olds to marry 35 year olds. He said it was as common then as pumping gas into your car today. I was like what? "Everybody did it" he said. I was like what? Are you serious? He said, "yeah, I heard it on those tapes!!" I was like "who made those tapes" and he said of course, "The Church and they wouldn't lie!!" I'm was like, "dude, do you honestly believe that 30-40 year olds back in Ol'Joe's day married 8 Year olds?" He said again, "yeah, I remember hearing it on those tapes." I said, "well that's a load of crap and it was never normal for 14 year olds to marry 35-40 year olds let alone an 8 year old." If Joseph Smith opened a theme park today, what would it be called? SEXLAND?
I guess He was trying to tell me that 14 wasn't a big deal when you compared it to all the 8 year olds that were getting married. Yeah, I hear you buddy, I also guess that 8 wasn't a big deal when you compare it to the 3-4 year olds that were getting married. Come on dude!! We invite you to now come into reality and join us in the real world, not Joseph Smith's land of make believe, child rape, adultery, fornication and orgies!!
I challenged him to study about it and he reassured me that he didn't need to because he knew it was true and those tapes confirmed it. He said that, " everybody knows that this was common back then." Wow!! I guess I missed that history lesson along with like 99.9% of the worlds population. I'm glad he has such a perfect knowledge about something when in reality, he doesn't have a damn clue!!
I told him that he had to be smoking something if he believed that. Anyway, he got really pissed and that was basically the end of the call.
But you see, my point is that this is what we are dealing with!! People that actually truly believe this crap with all their heart. They just know that the Church would never lie to them, especially these "mysterious tapes" that talked about 30-40 year old grown men hooking up with 8 year olds. I'm sorry, but anyone that actually believes this kind of stuff is a real, complete dumb ass and obviously has no ability to think for themselves whatsoever and I don't care who it is. Grow a brain!!
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I also wanted to put some great opinions from Polygamy Porter regarding this issue of "Polygamy" or "plural Marriage."
Subject: Sharing time with your Mo'neighbors: "Plural marriage" is misleading. Legally they were, only illicit, adulterous relationships.
Date: Aug 14 00:02
Author: Polygamy Porter
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Polygamy is defined as "plural marriage".
Without these illicit relationships being legally recognized marital unions, the word "polygamy" was misused as nothing more the crazy concoction of some religious LDS zealots. However, when sexual relations were involved, these relationships became adulterous, which is a sin.
The U.S. government never recognized these "plural marriages" as valid legally binding marital unions. The state of Illinois went as far as enacting a law in 1833 forbidding the practice of bigamy(polygamy and/or polyandry).
When the members fled to the the Wasatch mountains, the area was initially Mexican territory. Mexico also did not recognize plural marriages.
With so-called plural marriage lacking the legal recognition, one could say that the early members of the LDS church did not practice plural marriage or polygamy.
Once sexual relations occurred within most(if not all) of these illicit unions, these relationships, by definition, became sinful and adulterous. Therefore, one should say that the early Mormons only practiced sinful adultery on a large scale.
Does this make all of the children of the additional marriages, by definition, BASTARDS?
I always believed that callings were "mystical" and "spiritual" in nature. That was what we were taught and it is still currently taught in the Morg. It is a perception that they want the members to have and believe. They tell us that we have to pray about something, basically looking for a yes or no answer, when it comes to our everyday lives. Then, when it comes to calling someone, they make it seem as if, the name just pops into there head by some magical power. They just don't tell the truth.
Their "magical" method is the very method that the Church says that we shouldn't use. They say that we shouldn't just ask God, what should we do? We are supposed to study it out in our minds, decide what to do, then pray to see if it's right. Anyway, I learned personally, on my mission, that callings and leadership positions weren't by inspiration, they were by who kissed the President's butt the most and had the most baptisms. Inspiration? I never saw any!! It wasn't a coincidence that they highest baptizers rose to the top faster than anyone else. Who cared if anyone stayed active, it was just that initial number that mattered.
I want to relate the following story that happened to a good friend of mine. He was called as the new Elders Quorum President and had to call two counselors. Well, he went home, fasted, prayed and pondered and came up with the two names the he felt God wanted him to call. Well, when he took the names to the Bishopric, they didn't like either guy for various personal reasons and said no to both.
He felt lost, he had done what he was supposed to do, right? Well, they ended up telling him who would be his counselors and he never had any more say in the matter. They already had in their minds who they wanted and it had nothing to do with God or the spirit. It was all pre-determined. I guess that they were hoping that he'd come up with the same two names. If it had been inspired, they would have taken the two the my friend recommended after truly investing the time, thought and prayer. At least he actually prayed about it which is more than the Bishopric did.
I had two mission Presidents that were both complete asses. The first one had a goal of 1,000 baptisms for a month and forced Elders to set bi-monthly goals of 1,500 baptisms. He told us if we didn't reach our goals, it was because we weren't living right or didn't have faith. It actually led one of my companions to the edge of suicide because he really believed the President. My first interview with this guy, I had prayed and set a goal of 22 baptisms for 2 months and he ripped me up one side and down the other. He told me how disappointed He was that I didn't have more faith in God, etc. So he made me revise my goal and he reluctantly accepted 122. He still felt that the goal lacked a lot of faith. Of course I didn't even come close!!
Of course I didn't see him out there busting his ass in the middle of summer in 110 degrees and 100% humidity. One month with this Pres, we had 551 baptisms for the month, unfortunately, many of them came from Indian villages in the middle of no where, after promising these people tractors, cars, etc and many turned out to be 7 year old or younger kids. Oops!! The one companionship had like 57 baptisms and immediately went to be "Ass"istants to the Pres. What a joke!!
My 2nd President was horrible but the funniest thing that happened is that he was a huge, die-hard soccer fan and he took two AP's with him to a big soccer game. Well, his team won and he wanted to meet the star player, which he did after the game. Well, unfortunately for Him and the "Ass"istants, they took a picture which ended up on the front page of the local paper and like the dumb asses they were, they were all dressed as missionaries with their name tags and everything. Nobody even knew that they had gone to the game until the paper came out. Of course all the members saw it and word spread like wildfire. It was like the time his daughter met a guy and they took off in the mission van!!
Later, they tried to turn it into a great missionary opportunity, like they had planned it, being on the front page as missionaries which was never the intent, trust me!! Anyway, the whole mission had a great laugh over that one!! LOL!! Especially being that he was a complete arrogant ass and mistreated everyone!!
Earlier tonight on the recovery from Mormonism board, somebody brought up the treatment of the Elderly and their so called missions. I'm glad they did because I have a lot to say about that.Here is a quote from Hinckley himself LDS.org regarding the need for Senior missionaries:
"Along with the need for young elders and sisters, there is a growing need for couples in the mission field. Older married couples are doing a wonderful work in the missions. Many more are needed. . . . With an increasing number of people retiring while they are still possessed of health and vitality, there are many who can fill a tremendous need in the work of the Lord."
Here was the original post by DanBoyle
this was posted in the foyer at church today. This church has no shame, some of these "openings" even included the monthly cost to serve...not the monthly salary, the cost the senior missionary will pay to serve...the flyer has the heading "Full time senior missionary opportunities" Some listings:
Natural Resources/Hydrogeologist Engineer to develop water resources. Spouse would perform clerical and office support for a minimum of 32 hours per week
Exploration Research Geologist;...to research mineral potential of church owned properties....spouse should be computer literate..
Farm management company: basic carpentry, fixing things on the church farms, cost $1,ooo to $1,500 per month...
Polynesian cultural center: motorpool, fixing vehicles, must be able to lift 50 pounds several times a day..cost 2,000 to 2,500 per month!!
This church is out of control, asking retired folks to serve as "missionaries" when in reality it is free labor. Talk about taking advantage of the elderly, what a cult the church is.
For a complete listing of missionary "opportunities" you can check the church's website www.lds.org/csm
The final insult, a plea for help saying "our needs are great, and we would urge any one who has the spirit of Elijah to apply". Yes, I remember Elijah repairing transmissions and researching mineral rights in his golden years...
unbelievable...
Here are my comments regarding this issue:
I'm just speechless!! They know no shame!! Reading something like this makes me physically ill as I think about those older folks paying to be abused by a multi-billion dollar corporation. They can buy a billion dollar mall but they can't pay someone to motorpool and fix vehicles at the PCC? How much do they charge again to get into that damn place? Someone has to actually pay to have the privilege of fixing cars at the PCC? Oh yeah, how much is that luxury resort costing over there in Hawaii? Every time I think they are as low as they can go, they take it another lever lower. In my mind, they are becoming a more evil and controlling cult everyday. I think maybe a Federal Investigation needs to take place on these "so called missions." Especially where they involve the Elderly that are being greatly taken advantage off and abused.
This is abuse of the Elderly, plain and simple!! Something really needs to be done!! We need 48 hours or 20/20 to do an undercover investigation, an exposé and get Bishops,Stake Presidents, Seventies, etc, covering their faces saying, "no comment, no comment, while running from the cameras." This is truly a shameful practice and I'm even more embarrassed everyday that I was once a "true believer" in this cult!! I feel like throwing up now!!
Then there was a person that was saying that they don't pay their own way and this was my response:
Well, you can call it what you want but they are in fact "paying" to be there and they are not being compensated whatsoever for all of the hard work that they are doing. So, they are indeed being "charged" to serve and it is disguised as a "mission" call. Let's call it what it really is, a Billion dollar corporation that is too cheap to hire someone, when they can get all the work done for free, by Elderly people who are guilted and shamed into serving a mission for the Mormon God.
I have a hard time believing that there wasn't something better that your Grandparent's could have been doing in their "Golden Years", like being with their loved ones and relaxing or spending time on a hobby, or just relaxing.
You may say that they don't hold a literal gun to their head, but they hold a spiritual gun to their head. When my Dad retired, within weeks, he was in the Bishop's office being asked which mission he wanted to serve with my Mom. To his credit, he said none!! He said that he had worked his whole life in order to be able to retire, enjoy life and be with his Family. God bless him!! They kept bothering him for about a year and finally gave up. Whenever service projects come up, he is one of the first ones they call and he just tells them nope, can't do it. He doesn't feel like cleaning their celestial crapers anymore. Of course, they fired all the janitors a few year ago, due to "lack of funds", so that people like my Mom and Dad, would volunteer to clean their toilets. Another great legacy of Hinckley, isn't it?Here were some more comments and my responses:
> My relatives really loved their mission. They took care of missionary cars, made apartment arrangement for missionaries and signed leases, made sure the missionaries kept their rented rooms clean, and did a variety of other administrative duties.
They loved doing this? Really? 18 months of their life spent taking care of missionary cars, arranging apartments and leases for missionaries and making sure that missionaries kept their rooms clean and they loved it? If they did, they did, but I'm not buying it, that they were out there having a great time doing that crap and paying for it to boot. It's hard for me to believe that there was no other place they would have rather been and no other things that they would have rather been doing. I saw first hand on my mission how the Elderly are abused, mistreated and taken advantage off. They are not truly appreciated and I have many examples.
I feel that it is a complete disgrace that the Billion dollar Mormon Inc even has to ask Elderly people to do this crap after they have worked hard their whole life. I guess that they hope that they have been brainwashed sufficiently to want to do it for God!! The other thing that really pisses me off about the treatment of the Elderly is that they don't even qualify for the equal money program of missionaries. Why is this? They have to pay out the full price and the prices that they ask are way higher than they should be. If anyone should qualify for that program, it's the Elderly.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Mormon Inc owns the majority of the houses that they are charging the Elderly monthly rent for. The Church is definitely making a tidy profit off of the Elderly and it makes me sick. They should be ashamed of themselves, but how can they when they have no shame. Their is nothing too low, that they won't do to make a quick buck, even it means abusing and taking advantage of the Elderly.
I'd like to see some of these pompous ass Seventies out there doing this type of work with no compensation, at an older age. They wouldn't know what to do if they had to "really" work and give up their "living allowance", 5 star hotels, private jets, exquisite cuisine and luxury cars. Damn cult!!
Then she had another post, you go there and read the whole thing but here was 2nd response:
Well, to answer your question, no, my Mom did not put the Bishop up to it. She wanted to serve a mission a lot less than my Dad and he didn't want to at all.
Now, I just want to help you out a little bit about what the "listed cost" doesn't cover, right off of the Churches website. You make it sound like it's all inclusive but after seeing this list, you'll understand better that it isn't. Oh, and don't forget to pay your tithing and fast offerings too.
"Couples Estimated Mission Costs in US. These costs do not include health insurance, prescriptions, Tithing, Fast Offerings, long distance calls, cell phones, car repairs, personal care items such as hair, apartment set up costs."
I've read many cases, right here on this board, where an "older" couple has had to buy everything for their apartment. Dishes, a bed, everything. The Church won't pay for it, it's right out of their pocket. Also, many have commented that the amounts the Church is charging is much more than the current market value or average rent in the area.
Also, out of every mission that the Church lists, there are only 3, all in Brazil, that would cost less than the equal missionary plan. I'm not sure if you understand what I'm talking about. It's the plan where every missionary pays the same cost. How would that price them out, it would help them tremendously? From the costs ranging from $600-$3,700 in England, how would it hurt them to only be paying $400 instead. I think it's $400 still, it may be higher now. But I don't feel that just because they are an "older" retired couple, that they should have to flip the whole bill that could easily be paid for by a billion dollar corporation. After all, it was the Church not too long ago that recommended that all older couples should will their life savings to the Church.
For that matter, the Church could pay for every missionary, if they wanted to, without hardly making a dent in their bottom line. Let's just say that the Church brings in anywhere from $5-$10 Billion dollars a year in just tithing. We have 50,000 missionaries out in the field every two years. Lets say each mission costs $11,000-$12,000. So we are talking about $550-$600 million every two years. So, it would take about $300 million more or less a year, to completely sustain the mission program. It wouldn't even make a dent in the Billions that they have coming in from their tithing and investments. So why don't they? Why should they, when everyone will gladly and voluntarily pay their own way?!!
I can't help you see that they are indeed taking advantage of these people and I also can't help those that are blindly being taken advantage of to see it. It is what it is and it's ashame and a disgrace!! They are all victims of the damn cult and many don't even know it. I've been on a mission as have many of my friends; I've read many posts on here and I know how they treat the "older couples", unless you are Lavell Edward's on a "PR" mission in New York. He was the boss, hanging out with bigwigs, schmoozing with the who's who of New York, but that is the exception, not the rule!! Also, they do pressure these people greatly!! I know you don't believe that, but they do, I've seen it first hand.Samuel the Utahnite
I had a Bishop in Provo, Utah while going to BYU that should have been a porno director. I think people could have probably heard some thumping under his desk during their confessions....LOL. He was a complete pervert!! I believe that he truly got off on everyones confessions.
Anyone that went to him to confess their fornication or sexual sin, and there were many, were subjected to his needing graphic details of every act, how long it lasted, how many times, whether you enjoyed it, positions, oral, etc.
Very few people that had to confess to this perverted freak ever returned to Church and everyone, in these types of situations, is afraid to say anything because they will be punished more severely for speaking out on top of their sexual sin. Besides, all the Stake Presidents do is support the Bishops anyway, so what's the use. If you go to Salt Lake, they'll refer it back to the Bishop or SP so in reality, you have no recourse whatsoever as they are self-governing.
Also if you speak out in a situation like that, it is because you are a sinner and Satan is controlling you, you are now a rebel to God. So basically, they can do to you whatever they want, you are 100% at their mercy without any "real" recourse. They can and do destroy lives and seem to take great pleasure in the whole thing, the power, etc. Hard to believe that they do all this in the name of "Gods love". We love you so much, and God loves you so much, that we are going to throw you out of his Church, but hey, keep paying your tithing so that God can bless you on your road back....what a joke!! After all, they have malls to buy!!
It is unbelievable to me that he could actually ask those questions of people but after all, that is what the Mormon Church trained him to do. I think he probably took it to a whole new personal level, but come on, what a joke!! They should have had a court for him and thrown him out of the Church!! But these types of things are very common, I know a lot of people that have had the same experiences in many different places with many different Bishops.
