Mormon Stake President R. James Molina, Doesn't Have The Cojones To Go Through With Announcing Lyndon Lamborn's Excommunication, After Being Exposed!!

Mormon leader declines to announce ouster
Lawn Griffiths, Tribune

Lyndon Lamborn was excommunicated from the Mormon church for doubting some of its claims, but on Sunday his stake president backed away from a plan to publicly announce his ouster.

Mormon ousted as an apostate

Stake President R. James Molina wouldn’t tell the Tribune why he refrained from making the announcement at the eight wards under his leadership.
Molina had told the Tribune last week that he intended to have bishops publicly announce the discipline taken against Lamborn, a fourth-generation member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as a warning that he may spread blasphemy about the church.

Lamborn, 49, had gone before a disciplinary council of male elders on Aug. 19 where excommunication was ordered. Molina, president of the Mesa Arizona Salt River Stake, wrote to Lamborn in a letter dated Sept. 2, stating that “because of the nature of your excommunication and your involvement with the people of this area, an announcement will be delivered to the Melchizedek Priesthood quorums and Relief Society in each of the wards in our stake ... Sept. 23, 2007, that you have been excommunicated for apostasy.”

Excommunication allows him to be at church events, but not have membership privileges, wear temple garments or tithe.

Such a public announcement about an excommunication in the church is extremely rare, Mormon leaders confirmed.

It’s not clear whether Molina’s announcement was withheld as a result of the publicity the issue has garnered or whether he intends to do it at a later date.

Lamborn said Thursday he went to the Thunder Mountain Ward meeting Sunday expecting the announcement, then asked Molina why nothing happened. Lamborn said the stake president told him “I haven’t made a final decision.”

Molina said Thursday that the Lamborn issue “is a private matter, so I don’t have anything to say to you guys on it.”

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It's obvious to anyone with half a brain, exactly what happened here; Lyndon Lamborn went to the press and exposed R. James Molina's plan to humiliate and embarrass him and his family to the entire Stake, before R. James Molina got the chance to carry out his devious plan.

Fortunately, for people like Lyndon, Mormon Bishops and Stake Presidents like R. James Molina, are so stupid, clueless, caught up in their ego, and their so called "authority and power" and utter arrogance, devoid of any inspiration from on high; that they think that people like Lyndon would NEVER DARE question his so called "authority" or "spirit of discernment" and do what he did, by beating him to the punch and making it public.

Lyndon thwarted Jimmy's little plan of personal destruction and war that he was looking forward to starting, with Lyndon and his innocent family members and friends.

People like R. James Molina have no human decency, don't care what pain their pointless, unjustified actions will cause, because it's all for the cult, because the cult is TRUE, Joe's a Prophet, the BOM is true...at any cost. Mr. Molina is hoping that by "being the man", he can maybe get a promotion within the corporation and maybe become a Seventy or gasp...even an Apostle?

After all, there is an opening since James E. "GOLD FILLINGS" Faust kicked the bucket and I'm sure he thought this might earn him some serious brownie points, by being a hard-ass for Joseph, Hinckley and the Mormon Jesus. Only problem; he was too dumb and lacking of any common sense, insight, inspiration or discernment, to realize what could possibly happen and ultimately did happen, by having the whole thing blow up in his face.

So much for his promotion eh? In fact, I'm pretty sure that he got a severe scolding and tongue lashing from the goons sitting on their golden thrones in Salt Lake City, for bring so much needless controversy and negative publicity to the Mormon cult.

The Mormon Hierarchy is desperate and really on their heels right now, trying to counter the power of the Internet. They are constantly running from and trying to cover up the truth of their history, their evil, vile and horrific teachings and doctrines, their countless lies, their racism, bigotry, homophobia, sexism, hate and condemnation of ALL other people and religions("whores of all the earth", "abominations", "Harlots", "False", "Corrupt", "of the Devil"), full exposure of the lack of any Book of Mormon artifacts, archeology, DNA, etc, and this was the last thing they needed right now.

Anyway, I greatly admire Lyndon and his courage for taking these thugs straight on and winning. They look horrible and he looks like a great, honest guy, who stood up for himself, the truth and his family and in turn, was treated unfairly, dishonestly and un-Christlike.

The Mormon cult and their cult leader Molina look like the fools they are, always have been and always will be....excommunicating a good guy for simply reading "REAL" Mormon history, found in "OFFICIAL" Mormon books(currently sold at Mormon owned and run Deseret/Seagull/BYU bookstores) and then discussing it with others, like family members and friends...GASP!!

I had no idea that simply reading and studying TRUE Mormon history, out of their official books(that they sell daily and profit from) and then discussing it with friends and family, would warrant an immediate excommunication and announcement to the entire Stake. It appears to me that "THEY'VE LOWERED THE BAR!!"

They should be ASHAMED of themselves!!

I guess Boyd K. Packer wasn't kidding, when he said the following:

"You seminary teachers and some of you institute and BYU men will be teaching the history of the Church this school year. This is an unparalleled opportunity in the lives of your students to increase their faith and testimony of the divinity of this work. Your objective should be that they will see the hand of the Lord in every hour and every moment of the Church from its beginning till now."

"There is no such thing as an accurate, objective history of the Church without consideration of the spiritual powers that attend this work."

"Church history can be so interesting and so inspiring as to be a very powerful tool indeed for building faith. If not properly written or properly taught, it may be a faith destroyer."

"There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful."

"That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith—particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith—places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities."

"One who chooses to follow the tenets of his profession, regardless of how they may injure the Church or destroy the faith of those not ready for “advanced history,” is himself in spiritual jeopardy. If that one is a member of the Church, he has broken his covenants and will be accountable. After all of the tomorrows of mortality have been finished, he will not stand where he might have stood."

and finally:

"Remember: when you see the bitter apostate, you do not see only an absence of light, you see also the presence of darkness.

Do not spread disease germs!

Let's also remember that it was Boyd K. Packer(in "To Young Men Only"-AKA "The Little Factory Talk", General Conference Priesthood Session, October 2, 1976), advocating physical violence toward others, when he said:

"While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," he said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself."

Uh...yeah, Boyd K. Packer should have been excommunicated a LONG TIME AGO!!

So, I guess Boyd K. Packer wouldn't mind you guys also punching him in the face and "dropping him" too, if you're around him and don't like him, or something that he says or does? So have fun folks, just following his advice of using physical violence, that has the official "Packer Stamp of approval" for missionaries, but also prepare yourself for the ensuing lawsuit from Jesus' "one and only true" lawyers...LOL!!

I'm just guessing that if you can't even criticize them when the criticism is true(Dallin H. Oaks), that they won't let you get away with punching them in the face.

DAMN HYPOCRITES!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Lyndon Lamborn, "Mormon Apostate", Excommunicated By Stake President R. James Molina, For Simply Discussing "THE TRUTH" About Mormon History!!

This is truly another amazing story and example of what the Mormon cult is really all about, at its core. Lyndon Lamborn has been excommunicated by his Stake President, for simply discussing with others, like family members, "the real truth" of Mormon history, found in "official Mormon sources" and I felt that everyone should read this story and have a place to comment on it.

I can't wait to hear what you TBM/Mormon apologists have to say, in defense of your cult this time. There's already a Mormon apologist nut-job(ironically using the name "Mystified Mormon") going to town over on the East Valley Tribune website and I get nauseated just reading his excuses and justifications of his Mormon cult leaders.

I guess to you clueless clowns, NO Mormon leader has EVER said or done anything wrong and they are literal deity, right? Oh yeah, but you don't worship your leaders, rather Jesus Christ, right? What a joke!!

Anyway, it's good to be back writing on my blog and I apologize to everyone for my long absence, while I was dedicating myself to getting my YouTube videos up and running strong, which they now are.

In just over 2 months, thanks to all of you out there, I've had over 240,000 hits and over 7,000 comments, on the 142 videos now posted there, along with 157 subscribers, which will continue to grow and help expose the Mormon cult for the fraud it is.

I also want to give a big thanks to Chimyron, Demon of Kolob, JHuston7, Elder Joseph, Bringumyoung and all of the other ex-Mormons who are doing an outstanding job over on YouTube and other places, exposing the Mormon cult through their videos and allowing me and others to post their videos, while also posting my videos and commenting on them. The greater the exposure, the better!!

I'd also like to give a special welcome to Euilibrium83 who just joined the mix by exposing his former, asshole, masturbation and fear obsessed mission president Allan Pratt, who presided over the France Toulouse Mission. I'll be posting those videos here in the next day, so that you can watch them all here, so check back.

Anyway, you'll all be hearing a lot more from me in the next few days and future, as I'm going to once again dedicate myself to my blogs, podcasts and Skypecasts, with a lot of exciting things coming up, which I'll be letting you all know about soon.

Here is the article regarding Lyndon Lamborn's experience with the Mormon cult's witch hunt of him, ensuing excommunication and then their goal of public humiliating and trashing of him, his character and family. The Mormon Hierarchy's goal, is to publicly DESTROY, DISCREDIT and EMBARRASS anyone that discovers the "REAL TRUTH" and then talks about it publicly, with others or even their own family.

Like Lyndon says in a comment, responding to the article:

"When I first confronted my bishop about my findings and questions, he immediately went into 'damage control' mode. I mentioned in confidentiality that I had been discussing the issues with my brothers. The following week, my bishop had contacted the bishops of ALL my brothers, and they each received a visit from the 'Men In Black'. I honestly felt I was in 1939 Nazi Germany. Real life is stranger than fiction!"

Like Hinckley always says..."isn't it wonderful?!!" NOT!!
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Mormon Ousted As An Apostate
Lawn Griffiths, Tribune

Being excommunicated for apostasy by the Mormon church is one thing, but Lyndon Lamborn is livid that his stake president has ordered bishops in eight Mesa wards to take the rare step of announcing disciplinary action against him to church members today.

“I thought if he could go public, so can I,” said Lamborn, a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who said his research into church history gave him “thousands of reasons the church can’t be what it claims to be.”

Stake President R. James Molina acknowledged Friday he intends to have Lamborn’s excommunication announced to the wards at men’s priesthood meetings and womens Relief Society gatherings, even with Lamborn now taking his case public. Molina, as well as officials at church headquarters in Salt Lake City, call such a public warning about an ousted member extremely rare.

They say, however, church members must be protected from what discordant ex-followers may say to damage the church.

In a letter to Lamborn dated Sept. 2, Molina noted that a disciplinary council had been held Aug. 19 and excommunication was ordered. Lamborn, 49, a Mesa resident who has been a priesthood leader for 20 years, was informed he was no longer a church member, could not “enjoy any membership privileges, including the wearing of temple garments and the payment of tithes and offerings.”

He could attend public meetings if his conduct is orderly, but would be denied giving any talks, offering prayers, partaking of the sacrament or voting.

“Because of the nature of your excommunication and your involvement with people in this area, an announcement will be delivered to the Melchizedek Priesthood quorums and Relief Society in each of the wards in our stake ... on Sunday, September 23, 2007, that you have been excommunicated for apostasy,“ Molina wrote.

“We need to let people know if there is a danger to them, such as him teaching doctrine that is contrary to what is taught by the church,” Molina said Friday.

Lamborn, a member of the Thunder Mountain Ward, said his Mormon roots go back generations, with a great-grandfather in the famed Mormon Battalion that trekked from Iowa to San Diego in 1846 and 1847.

Lamborn served a two-year Mormon mission in 1977-79 in Belgium, was elders quorum president four times and led a Mormon Boy Scout troop. Most recently, he said he was assigned to teach older men in his ward and held other roles.

But everything changed in early 2005. Lamborn, an engineer employed at Boeing in Mesa for nearly 25 years, was asked by a work colleague about the wives of church founder Joseph Smith. She had read “Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith” by John Krakauer and asked Lamborn if what she had read was accurate.

Smith, the first LDS prophet and president, had at least 33 wives by many accounts.

“Well, I had no knowledge of multiple wives, so I did some research, including using the church’s own genealogical Web site, familysearch.org,” Lamborn said.

He found the information concurred with the book. “Nonmembers seemed to know more about the personal life of Joseph Smith than me,” he said.

Lamborn conducted further research, which led him to question many church teachings. He said he went to Molina with his questions, but received no definitive answers.

Lamborn has been attending the three-hour ward meetings with his wife and 16-year-old son. His two daughters, 22 and 24, “are totally out of Mormonism.”

He said he learned that his five brothers “were doing the same research and arriving at the same conclusions” and doubts, he said. The same was true for his best friend since childhood. In a meeting earlier this summer with Molina, Lamborn acknowledged that he wanted to give up his church membership.

“I was planning to leave the church quietly, but was denied that opportunity, presumably because I was speaking openly to other members about my findings and (was) writing things down,” Lamborn said.

Lamborn has compiled his research into a lengthy testament called, “Search for Truth 6/07,” in which he states: “There comes a time in the life of many church members when the desire to know the truth about the church becomes stronger than the desire to believe the church is true.”

He said he intends to continue to accompany his wife, Nancy, to ward services. “It is tough to go, tough to attend, but I enjoy the fellowship,” he said.

He said he has no desire to join another church, adding that the Mormon faith has many merits, such as its strong family values and its internationally recognized welfare system to help those in need.

The public announcement of his excommunication will be toughest on his wife, Lamborn said. “There’s the embarrassment,” he said. “Friends won’t know how to treat her. The awkwardness. It is going to be tougher on her than anybody.”

Clark Hirschi, manager of the area relations division in Salt Lake City, said Friday he talked to Molina after the stake president was contacted by the Tribune.

“Despite the fact that he has told you this is going to happen, it is up to the priesthood leaders,” Hirschi said. “There may be a letter read to some of the adult members this Sunday. It might be in a few weeks. It may not happen. That is going to be at the discretion and call of the stake president.”

Hirschi said he has never been in a meeting in his own 20 years as a Mormon where a public announcement about an excommunication has been made. He said he had only heard of one being made in a neighboring stake.
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I tried posting the following comment over on the East Valley Tribune site, where the article is located, but I guess the comment is too long, as it wouldn't allow me to post it.

Anyway, here is the full comment that I wrote, addressing this issue and publicly inviting Lyndon to come on the "Mormon Truth Podcast" and tell his story:

Lyndon, I first want to say that I'm sorry your going through this and I also commend you on your courage to take on the Mormon cult and their lies regarding their true history and teachings, which they pretend don’t even exist, were never taught, etc. I also came to same shocking conclusion you did back in 2005, once I discovered “the real truth” regarding Mormonism and it’s history, teachings and doctrines.

I’ve spent the last 2 years of my life, time and money, passionately writing on my blogs, recording podcasts and posting videos, that expose the Mormon cult for what it truly is. The horrific racist teachings of Brigham Young(along with many other Mormon Prophets and Apostles) regarding blacks being cursed as “the seed of Cain” and “cursed with a flat nose and black skin”, “being literal representatives of Satan on earth” was what put me on the path to “the real truth.”

It was devastating to me and my family and I’ve lost several family members and friends from my life for asking them simple questions like, “did you know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist?” They told me that I should be ashamed of myself for speaking such lies about their beloved Prophet Joseph Smith(who only had ONE WIFE EMMA and who would never do something so awful and evil), especially being a returned missionary and they cut me and anyone that associates with me, out of their life instantly....as it was just that simple for them, as the church ALWAYS comes first, even before family and loved ones..

My niece had just been taught in seminary that year, that polygamy started and ended with Brigham Young and was just to help out the widows. And some of you Mormons out there wonder why people don’t know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist? Where does the Mormon Church and hierarchy, in it’s official history, books, manuals or teachings, state that Joseph Smith was a polygamist.

In 30+ years of membership, including lifelong, devout church attendance, 4 years of seminary, 2 months in the MTC and 2 years on my mission and 5 years at BYU institutute...never once did they teach a single word about Joseph Smith’s polygamy...so don’t be so quick to judge us Mormons. When have they ever discussed publicly, the polygamy of Joseph Smith and details of who his wives were, how old they were, that they were happily married to other men, etc? Have they ever taught this in General Conference? Why not?!!

I challenge ANY of you die-hard Mormons and Mormon apologists out there reading this(melting down and screaming LIAR...LIAR), to go to the official Joseph Smith website...JosephSmith.net...and show the world where it openly discusses Joseph Smith’s other wives and emphatically states that Emma WASN’T his only wife and that it wasn’t just a “Joe and Emma” love affair, as they present to the world. I then want you to explain to everyone why there is no mention of his other wives, on the “official” Joseph Smith website, if they are indeed so open and honest about it and have NOTHING to hide.

Oh, by the way, My wife and her entire family were also lifelong members and had NEVER heard about Joseph Smith’s polygamy and the same is true for almost all of my family and friends, who have called me a liar and cut me off, as they are taught to do. Just associating with or sympathizing with an “evil apostate” like me or Lyndon, is forbidden and will get you excommunicated, because we’re so dangerous with “the truth” we now know.

In fact, on the interview with Larry King, when asked about polygamy, current Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley said “I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think IT IS NOT DOCTRINAL. It is not legal. And this church takes the position that we will abide by the law.” “It is not doctrinal?” Really? What was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and all the others doing then?

Oh and by the way, it was illegal back in their time and they were clearly violating the laws of the land. Also, why did Joseph Smith publicly deny and lie about being a polygamist till his death, calling those that accused him of it to be perjurers? So, Joseph Smith is a proven liar, using his own words...and I again challenge anyone to prove what I’ve said to be false!! Warren Jeffs is the modern day version of Joseph Smith, following Joe’s teachings to a perfect T and if Joe was around today, he’d be rotting in prison and on trial too, just like his buddy and follower Warren Jeffs.

These are the lies that Lyndon and all of us ex-Mormons/apostates are talking about, that terrifies the Mormon cowards/apologists like this Stake President R. James Molina, who is a disgrace in the cover-up of the Mormon cult and all of the skeletons in their closet, that are currently falling all over the ground, for the world to clearly see(which the Mormon hierarchy denies repeatedly). Does Jimmy actually believe that Lyndon is lying? Really?!!

Does Mr. R. James Molina even know that Joseph Smith was a polygamist, married to 14 year old Helen Mar Kimball, against her will and that of her mother, holding her entire family’s eternal life and destiny in the balance, basically threatening her and her parents with damnation and fear?

What about all the happily married women, as mentioned in the article, that Joseph Smith forced to marry him? They don’t exist either, right Mormons? So Familysearch.org is also lying and now considered to be anti-Mormon as well?

Yes, us apostates are the liars and completely delusional, right? How can the Mormon Hierarchy and leadership consider “OFFICIAL MORMON DOCTRINE and HISTORY” to now be anti-Mormon? Maybe they should be excommunicated for lying about it every single day? Aren’t they just condemning and further embarrassing themselves in their attempts to blatantly lie and cover-up further than they already have?

So, you can now be excommunicated from the Mormon cult for just discussing their “actual, real history”, that is currently being sold and profited from at Mormon owned and run Deseret/Seagull and BYU bookstores? Shouldn't they seriously be held to the same standards as the members are and be excommunicating themselves, starting with Gordon B. Hinckley and Sheri L. Dew, for even allowing this evil “anti-Mormon literature” to be sold at THEIR bookstores? Give me a break!!

If we aren’t even allowed to even discuss “REAL, OFFICIAL” Mormon history now and will be singled out and publicly excommunicated for it; why should they be allowed to sell it and profit from it? What HYPOCRITES!!

Lyndon, I want to offer you the opportunity and forum to be able to tell your COMPLETE, UNEDITED STORY to the world through an interview on my "Mormon Truth Podcast", available to the world through my blog and iTunes. Just follow the link here to my main blog, which links to my podcasts or Google “Mormon Truth” or “Mormon Truth Podcast” and you’ll easily find me, my blogs, podcasts and Email address if you are interested. There will be no time limit and you can either just record your story yourself, on your own time and forward it to me or do an interview directly with me. You can also search the term “Mormon”, under “podcasts” on iTunes and find my 4 podcasts in the top 25.

The 3 part interview that I did with Joy was very revealing, as she was able to tell her story of how they treated her and her gay friend, who eventually, through his depression, tragically committed suicide. Joy’s father is currently married to TWO LIVING WOMEN(divorced civilly from her Mother), at the same time, in the Mormon temple, which is another secret the Mormon Hierarchy desperately try to cover up(despite Hinckley having to sign off on it and approve of it), that proves they still believe and allow polygamy as we speak.

Lyndon, I get over 30,000 downloads a month of my podcasts and growing and this will be a GREAT opportunity for you to get your story and experiences out there, for all to hear, if you would like to do that. I just wanted you know that you will ALWAYS have a place to tell your story when you're ready and that I'm 100% in support of you and on your side!!

Thanks again Lyndon for having the courage to go public and tell the world “The TRUTH”, about the Mormon cult and how they’ve treated you, I wish you the best and I hope to hear back from you soon.
============

As always, I look forward to everyone's comments!!

Samuel the Utahnite

The Missionaries Over At Mormon.Org, Are Getting A Little Upset These Days When Confronted By The "Real Truth." Remember Guys...Slow To Anger!!

I've taken the time over the last week, to confront a couple more missionaries or volunteers, or whatever they hell they are, over at Mormon.Org. The one I just talked to, was a complete asshole and just cut me right off, when I accused him/her of lying, which they were. Here is a link to the other chat I had, in case you missed it.

Gee, wouldn't a representative of Jesus Christ be kinder and more loving and want to see why I thought they were lying and then express to me why they weren't lying, despite all of the evidence showing otherwise? I guess not!! By the way, the name of the person I was talking to was Adrian. Anyone else have a run-in with the friendly Adrian?

How much longer will this charade last(the cat's out of the bag dumb asses), as they must be getting bombarded by ex/anti-Mormons every single day. How many real people are actually going there to talk to them.

It must be the same bullshit day after day, being confronted with the shocking truth, then not answering our questions and telling us to read the Book of Mormon; because if it's true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet, the church is true and nothing we are asking them even matters, which is exactly what they tell me and everyone else that ventures in there.

Anyway, I'll post the 2 transcripts below so that you can all read them. The first one is about Dallin H. Oaks saying that they can't Ever criticize their leaders, even if the criticism is true and I then worked in Mountain Meadows Massacre and his admission that "without a doubt" Mormon leaders committed the slaughter.

The second one is about how they claim they don't condemn other religions, while openly condemning them from the First Vision forward, especially in the Book of Mormon. Adrian actually denied it again, right in the chat...OOPS!!

These guys know they are lying, when the truth is so obvious and clear; but they just think we are all idiots and will easily believe their den of lies and want to join the cult tomorrow.

Also, the Mormon Hierarchy has disabled the cut and paste option that used to be there in the chats, so now, all you have to do, is go up to File and click on Save as, and save it as a text file. You will have to do some editing, but at least we can still post our conversations with these brainwashed Mormons, for all the world to read.

Conversation #1:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Addie: Hello! What can I do for you today?

Samuel: Yeah, I was curious to know more about the Mormon faith, after watching the PBS documentary called the Mormons.

Addie: Yes. That was an interesting program. What were some of your questions/concerns?

Samuel: Well, I was wondering if you are ever able to criticize your leaders and if you are punished when you do? They talked about all of the intellectuals that were excommunicated for speaking out and that is very troubling to me. So, are you allowed to criticize your leaders, especially the Apostles or Prophet?

Samuel: From what I've discovered, Dallin H. Oaks is one of your Prophets and he said the following:

Samuel: Sorry, go ahead and then I'll post the quote by Oaks

Samuel: Are you still there? (I'd waited like 5 minutes with no response at all and there was at least a 2 minute gap after almost every question I asked them.)

Addie: We believe that when a prophet speaks he does so by revelation and speaks the word and will of the Lord. The members of our Church sustain our leaders, which means committing to support them in their decisions. Also,

Samuel: So, they can never EVER be wrong? They are perfect and infallible? Aren't they imperfect men, just like any other man? That's what I've always believed, that no one is perfect...

Addie: in that process, they have the opportunity to voice objections and oppositions to those leaders. However, there is a difference between voicing objections and speaking against established doctrine

Addie: Prophets are not perfect.

Samuel: So, you can criticize them publicly, if you feel they are wrong or out of line, without any problems?

Addie: However, when they speak as directed by revelation, which is not everything they say, we believe it is the word of God

Samuel: If Prophets are not perfect, then anyone should be able to criticize them in my opinion, including Mormons themselves, right?

Samuel: How do you or does the world know when they are speaking by revelation or just as common men that make mistakes?

Addie: We are encouraged to pray about their words when they speak. Always, they invite us to know for ourselves and asking the Lord if what they speak is the truth. They never ask us to blindly obey.

Addie: Also, they will usually inform us of their opinions

Addie: For this reason, I personally have never found reason to criticize them

Samuel: So, let's say that they are not speaking by revelation and say something that isn't true? Can you openly criticize them for it with no fear of punishment?

Samuel: So, it's all based on what someone feels, whether it's true or not? What if you feel it's revelation and someone else doesn't?

Samuel: They don't ask you to blindly obey? But what if you pray about what they've said and you feel that it's wrong? Then what? Is that a problem?

Addie: When prophet is speaking by revelation, they make it clear that revelation is the source.

Samuel: Here's my question again; if you feel, after praying, that the Prophet or Apostles are wrong in what they are saying; can you openly criticize them for it without being punished?

Samuel: Do they allow you to speak your mind, even if it's against what they are saying? You said they aren't perfect, therefore they could screw up and make mistakes, teach false things, etc, right?

Addie: Why would you want to be part of the church if you feel that the prophets and apostles are wrong?

Samuel: Well, you earlier admitted that they aren't perfect, therefore they could be wrong. Either they are perfect and infallible or they aren't, right?

Addie: I know, from personal experience that these prophets are men of God. I trust their judgment and accept that they are not perfect. But I believe that I can trust in the counsels that God gives to them.

Samuel: I'm just trying to understand this, I really am. I have a lot of friends that are Mormon and they seem to blindly obey, saying that their leaders can never make a mistake or lead them astray in anyway and that if they try, God will literally remove them, is this true?

Addie: The most important thing that we can do is to seek

Samuel: But you still haven't answered my main question; can you criticize them, ever?

Samuel: even if they are wrong?

Addie: God's guidance through prayer to know if the prophets are acting according to the will of God.

Samuel: By admitting that they are human, they can make mistakes and can you then state openly how you feel about those human mistakes and errors, thus criticizing them?

Samuel: So, you do follow them blindly?

Samuel: Why pray to understand them or know what they are saying is true, if they can't ever teach anything wrong? It seems very redundant to me to pray about something that you already know can't possibly be wrong, ever?

Samuel: Look, here's the quote from Oaks:

Addie: Samuel I'd love to answer your questions, but it's tough to answer four at a Time.

Samuel: "It's wrong to criticize leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true."

Addie: Can I answer them one at a time?

Samuel: 4 at a time? I've been asking you the same exact question over and over, without you being willing to answer it. Again, can you openly criticize leaders of the Mormon church? I'll answer it for you, since you refuse to, and the answer is...no, because Dallin H. Oaks says you can't, even if the criticism is true and that's what troubles me greatly as an investigator and someone trying to learn more about your church.

Addie: I'm glad that you've got sincere desires to learn.

Samuel: I consider myself to be an intellectual and inquisitive person, therefore not being able to ever object to anything these imperfect men say would be hell for me and would take away my freedom of expression and thought.

Addie: One thing that Jesus taught us in Matthew Chapter 6 is that we are not to cast judment on others whether they are prophets or not. We can disagree with views that they have, but criticism is really not necessary; that is a form of judgment

Samuel: I found that comment by Oaks to be so offensive, that I about fell off of my chair. It's like he thinks that he is God or Jesus Christ and cannot ever be criticized, even it the criticism is true. Those are not the words of man who sees himself as imperfect and that's not free agency or freedom at all.

Samuel: Would you ever state Addie that no one should ever criticize you, even if the criticism is true? Do you understand why this troubles me, when earlier you admitted that they aren't perfect, yet they say that they are beyond any criticism? It seems very contradictory to me in every way.

Addie: I understand perfectly. It's alright to express your concern with those whom you are concerned with. But that issue is between you and the person you disagree with. I welcome counsel and constructive criticism, but there isn't a point in pointing out.

Addie: weakness publicly whether prophets or not.

Samuel: Also, when talking about Mountain Meadows Massacre, Dallin H. Oaks said that:

"I have no doubt, on the basis of what I have studied and learned, that Mormons, including local leaders of our church, were prime movers in that terrible episode and participated in the killing."

Samuel: So, if you disagree with the Prophet or Dallin H. Oaks for example, can you go sit down with him and discuss it in private? Do they allow any member to meet with them?

Addie: They are always welcome to letters and other forms of communication.

Samuel: So, can you publicly criticize the Prophet with "constructive criticism?"

Addie: Can I ask, what do you understand a prophet to be?

Samuel: So, let me ask you this; Dallin H. Oaks openly admits that Mormon leaders killed all of those poor people at Mountain Meadows, but you aren't allowed to criticize them for the horrible murders they committed? According to Dallin H. Oaks, even if they murder innocent men, women and children, as he has now admitted to, you CAN'T criticize them...that's insane!

Samuel: He also hopes that the Lord will forgive these murderous Mormon leaders, when I believe murder is the unforgivable and unpardonable.

Samuel: I believe a Prophet is a man of God, who speaks and acts for God

Addie: Samuel, I don't feel that you're being very sincere about listening to theanswers to your questions. Those acts of those men who committed that horrible act were not endorsed by the prophet and when he heard of their acts he was very disappointed...

Samuel: Disappointed? 120 people were slaughtered by Mormon leadership and he was disappointed? I just don't know how to overcome these major concerns, as all my friends are trying to get me to take the missionary discussions and get baptized. That's why I'm here today, to see if I can resolve these concerns with you...

Addie: with them and they were excommunicated.

Addie: The real question you need to ask is to God.

Addie: If these men speak and act for God is there reason to criticize?

Samuel: So why did Oaks say that Mormon leaders were the "prime movers" and "participated in the killings?"

Addie: He was speaking of the local leaders, not of the prophets (so like a bishop). We do not consider such men to be prophets.

Samuel: So, it's okay to publicly criticize a Bishop then? Only John D. Lee was executed or excommunicated for those crimes and there were over 100 men committing the murderers.

Addie: Do you believe that God can answer prayers?

Samuel: Okay, let me ask you this, as I've been researching this Mountain Meadows tragedy....was John D. Lee guilty of murdering these poor people or not?

Samuel:I don't believe God has to answer questions that are already answered by the facts and truth, nor do I have to ask him if they answers are already obvious and clear.

Addie: I understand your concerns, but I know that all the questions you have will be answered by a much simpler question. "Is the Book of Mormon true?"

Samuel: What?

Samuel: Mountain Meadows Massacre is discussed in the Book of Mormon?

Samuel: I had no idea...

Samuel: What part?

Addie: If the Book of Mormon is true then the church is true and so are the prophets. That act was not an act of the Church, but of misguided men, and as such really doesn't effect a person's testimony of the doctrines of the church.

Samuel: I discovered that John D. Lee was also sealed to Brigham Young too, which is strange. Back then, men sealed themselves to each other in the Mormon temple?

Addie: If you find out that the Book of MOrmon is true you will still understand that this was a horrible act that should never have taken place, but you will also know that it was not an act of God, and that the church, which tried to stop it, is of God.

Addie: I would invite you to pray and ask god of if the Book of Mormon is true with a sincere heart. Will you do that?

Samuel: So, if the Book of Mormon is true, then the Mormon church is perfect and true and has never, ever made any mistakes and their leaders are infallible and can never, ever be criticized(even if the criticism is true), and they have never made any mistakes?

Samuel: Was John D. Lee a murderer?

Addie: Samuel, will you pray with a sincere heart?

Samuel: Answer my last question please

Samuel: I'm only asking you about John D. Lee, because I don't know if you are aware or not, that in 1961, the Mormon Hierarchy fully restored his blessings and forgave him for all of those awful and tragic murders he committed, of men women, children, even babies...and that also shocks me and troubles my soul deeply. Why would they do this?

Addie: I really don't know enough about that event to give you a difinitive answer, but I do know that this church is Jesus Christ's. If you will pray with a sincere heart and faith, you will find the same.

Addie: I hope you have a great evening.

Samuel: John D. Lee was the adopted son of Brigham Young, through their sealing together in the Salt Lake City temple and he was executed for his crime of mass murder and they've now forgiven him. Why?

Samuel: Praying won't answer these questions and you never told me if Mountain Meadows is discussed in the Book of Mormon, as you seemed to indicate.

Samuel: Do you not care at all about facts or evidence?

Samuel: So, is the Mormon church the one and only true church on earth?

Addie: I care about the spirit of God. I know the Book of Mormon is true and as such, I know that the Church of Jesus Christ is the only true and living church that is guided by God himself on the earth. If you simply find that out the other questions won't...matter anymore.

Samuel: Is my church really an abomination, with false doctrines and corrupt professors, as Joseph Smith clearly indicated. You are the only people on earth that have the truth? Everyone else is guided by Satan?

Addie: Please pray. I know you'll get an answer.

Samuel: The other questions won't matter anymore? Are you serious?

Addie then cut me off and abruptly ended the conversation, refusing to answer any of my questions, insisting that the only thing that mattered, was the Book of Mormon and that "If you simply find that out that it's true, then the other questions won't matter anymore."

Now, those are the true fruits of Mormonism folks. Facts, truth, logic and reality mean nothing and all that matters is that you believe the Book of Mormon is true, end of story, if it's true, it's all true, Joseph Smith was a Prophet and the church is true, and nothing else matters.

Conversation #2:

Speak With a Missionary-Thank you for taking the time to chat with us and for your interest in the Church. Please know that you are welcome to worship with us any time, request a visit from Mormon missionaries, order a Book of Mormon, or continue to browse our Web site to learn more answers to life's greatest questions.

Referral Support: Hello, My name is Adrian how can I help you?

Mike: Hey Adrian, where are you at?

Mike: Are you an actual missionary from the MTC?

Referral Support: were are in Utah

Mike: I figured that, but are you a student, a missionary, or what? I've heard that
the folks on here are from the MTC or BYU?

Referral Support: I am a member of the Church.

Mike: Uh yeah, I figured that too...I mean what are the odds that the Mormon church would put somebody on here that wasn't even a Mormon? So, I guess you can't tell me what you are, if you're a missionary, student or whatever, which is fine.

Mike: I just wondered where I was talking to, if you were in Salt lake, Provo, etc, but obviously you aren't allowed to share that information with the public.Well, hopefully you can help me out anyway and will be more forthcoming on my other questions...

Referral Support: you are correct, I am not to share that kind of information.

Referral Support: I will do my best to answer yor questions

Mike: Sounds a little paranoid to me, since it was just a general question, but okay, hopefully they'll allow you to speak freely regarding other things.

Mike: I've always heard how secret the Mormon church is, especially regarding the temple, and I guess it's true.

Referral Support: Ok mike , I dont want to give you information about myself that is all

Mike: Anyway, I've been Catholic all my life and since moving to Utah, I've become interested in learning more about Mormons

Mike: Yeah, because I might track you down, right? LOL

Mike: whatever man

Mike: But I've read in Mormon Doctrine, which was written by one of your Apostles and also I've been reading in the book of Mormon

Referral Support: I dont want. it is simple , I am not goint to ask about your personal information.

Referral Support: ok

Mike: and it looks like you guys have really issues with Catholics or any other religion

Referral Support: we dont

Mike: Looks like we got off on a very bad foot

Mike: You don't?

Referral Support: I was catholic

Referral Support: all my family is catholic, I love them

(For some reason at this point, we were suddenly disconnected. I quickly logged back in and happened to get Adrian again and so we continued on with out conversation for a little while longer. Adrian had no idea what happened and it certainly wasn't anything I did. It must have been that Mormon God, intervening to help his servant and representative...LOL.)

Referral Support: Hi mike, I dont know what happend

Referral Support: sorry we got disconected

Mike: Yeah, me either...it just disconnected...I thought you hung up on me

Referral Support: no I didnt

Referral Support: ok , so do you have some questions

Referral Support: ?

Mike: Anyway, like I was saying, it looks to me like you guys have serious issues with Catholics or any other religion

Mike: Maybe you can help me understand somethings

Referral Support: okay

Mike: First of all, do you believe that your church is "the one and only true church" on the planet earth?

Referral Support: yes I do.

Mike: I believe the First Vision of Joseph Smith says that Jesus said, that all other churches are abominations with corrupt professors(preachers) and wrong doctrines, or something like that...

Referral Support: they are not guided by God.

Mike: So, if you have "the one and only truth", what does that say about my religion and the religions of most of my friends and family? Why do we have to become Mormon?

Mike: So, you are telling me that my religion is not guided by God? By what authority do you tell me this?

Mike: You realize that's offensive, right?

Referral Support: well, that is what I believe (No apologies of course)

Referral Support: dont take offence on that

Mike: It's funny how Mormons and your leaders always say that they never cut down any other religion...but you clearly do, by saying that you have the only truth on earth and that all the rest are abominations, corrupt and wrong.

Mike: Yeah, but your church believes that everyone needs to be a Mormon, in this life or the next, right? That's why you baptize dead people.

Mike: So, if Mormonism is "the one and only true church" on earth, then all the other religions are indeed false, right?

Referral Support: We are the only true Church, I know that. we have prophets and apostles that recieve revelation from God. All other Churches are full of great people, great feelings and amazing teachings , but lack authority to act in God's name

Mike: Do you believe that Satan runs my church and that it's of the Devil?

Mike: You believe this why? (This was an answer to their last comment)

Referral Support: no, I dont think so.

Mike: Aren't you just making the same claim that most religions make?

Referral Support: well you tell me what do you believe?

Mike: You believe in the Book of Mormon, right? Joseph said it's the most correct book on earth or something like that didn't he?

Referral Support: what do you believe about the LDS church and your church?

Mike: I don't believe that you have to belong to one particular church in order to be saved...I believe it's based on the kind of person you are and how you treat others, not whose church you call home.
Referral Support: well you said you were catholic, and that is not what they believe

Mike: Well, we are talking about what you believe and preach, not what I believe and in the Catholic church, we don't go around openly condemning other churches, calling them the church of the devil and abominations, whores of all the earth and Mothers of Harlots and we try to be kind to everyone.

Referral Support: but what is your doctrine?

Mike: So, you tell me what my doctrine is, since you are so well informed about it

Referral Support: you certanly believe exactly what you are criticizing from the LDS church

Mike: That unless you are a Catholic, you're screwed? That's what I believe?

Referral Support: the catholic Church to be the only true church.

Mike: Well, at least we don't preach that Mormons and all other churches are the church of Satan and the whore of all the earth

Referral Support: we dont prach about anybody else, We actually dont preach about others at all. (Can you believe that shit? I can't believe they actually said this? Now tell me that they didn't know they were outright lying when they made this statement!!)

Mike: Still there?(There was a very long pause before their last comment and this comment of mine, as they both popped up at the same time.) You believe in the Book of Mormon, don't you? Well, it greatly insults me and any other religion out there, yet your church claims that we are all evil

Mike: Saying you don't preach about other religions is an outright lie and you know it

Referral Support: Mike , is not a lie, and please remember what your religion claims before you criticize the LDS church for what it claims

1 Nephi 14:10.....Behold there are save two churches only, one is the church of the lamb of God and the other is the church of the DEVIL, wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the MOTHER OF ABOMINATIONS; and she is the WHORE of all the earth.

1 Nephi 13:34...wherefore, after I have visited them in judgment, and smitten them by the hand of the Gentiles, and after the Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb which have been kept back by that ABOMINABLE church, which is the MOTHER OF HARLOTS, saith the Lamb--I will be merciful unto the Gentiles in that day, insomuch that I will bring forth unto them, in mine own power, much of my gospel, which shall be plain and precious, saith the Lamb.

Referral Support: Take care

Mike: Where are you going?!! I wasn't done...

==========

That was the abrupt end of the chat. I guess they can't handle "the real truth", can they? Hypocritical jackasses!!

I look forward to everyone's comments on these chats.

Samuel the Utahnite

Here Come The Mormons With "Truth Restored!!" They're Getting Ready To Blitz The World Through TV, Radio, Newspaper, Billboards And The Internet.

I first want to thank Kay over at the "Ex-Mormon Skeptic blog", for writing the post that brought this to my attention. There are also a couple of condensed versions of this video over on Youtube. One is on already on their blog and here's a link to the other "enhanced version", that I highly suggest you watch.

This is the "new" marketing plan/blitz/campaign that is being rolled out by the Mormon cult Hierarchy(in order to suck more people into their cult), which was supposedly revealed to them by Jesus Christ himself, since they are his "special witnesses."

They claim to be the only men on the entire planet earth that have the authority to speak for Jesus, with Hinckley holding ALL the "keys." Has Hinckley ever used his keys even once? Does he or anyone even know what the keys really are? They claim that THEY are the "one and only true church" and all the rest are abominations, corrupt and false.

They teach in "Preach My Gospel, the official missionary teaching guide used everyday all around the world, that you CANNOT have Eternal happiness or be with your friends and loved ones in the next life, unless you are a Mormon.

Like their Book of Mormon declares repeatedly; there is the church of God and the church of the Devil and if you aren't Mormon, then you are in the church of Satan himself and there is NO disputing this TBMS and apologists, so don't even try. You're apologetic bullshit won't work here!!

They never even mention that this new cult campaign "Truth Restored", came from Jesus Christ, but it had to if they speak for him as they claim, right? Strange that they didn't give him the credit though, isn't it? Hmm...maybe since it was their idea and had nothing to do with any God or Jesus, it might explain this obvious and very grievous omission.

They are going to blitz the radio, TV, billboards, magazines(playboy?) and Internet with ads, that have nothing to do with Mormonism, rather feelings and burning bosoms. The funny thing is, that I thought they'd already been doing this for the last 20 years plus?

They are simply re-dressing and re-naming their already failed plans of the past and trying again, spinning it as something new and exciting, that will breakthrough and be wonderful and motivate the Morgbots.

Hmm...I guess all of those TV/Radio/Billboard/magazine ads that I've been seeing and hearing since my childhood and then my whole adult life, wasn't really them or they were just completely ineffective, which is what I've always suspected. No more free stuff being offered either, by toll-free 800 numbers on TV commercials, as it was ineffective and cost them/Jesus Christ too much money. They just figured this out? Mormon God/Jesus, where are you man?

Of course, these are the dumbasses that stand at the pulpit and declare with a straight face, that "they can't ever lead you astray" and "to keep your eyes riveted on them." What are we waiting to see?

Also, I thought that they were strongly against the Internet, constantly preaching to everyone how evil and dangerous it is, even banning YouTube and other dangerous sites at BYU and getting all of my videos and Chymiron's banned from Youtube. Now they say that "These people live with the Internet" and "it's a very familiar tool with them." WTF?!!

Now they are also going to give you "pass-along cards"(or maybe you'll have to buy them at Jesus' Deseret Bookstore) to pass out to all of your non-member family and friends. These cards will lead the poor suckers to Mormon.Org, where they can go and NOT learn the truth and just read a bunch of BS, half-truths and outright lies.

Any mention there of blacks being forbidden to have the Priesthood, that blacks are the seed of Cain and represent Satan, women not being able to pray in church for 10 years or Joseph Smith's polygamy and marriage to little girls and other men's wives, with the promise of Celestial glory, in the name of God, due to being threatened by a homicidal angel wielding a flaming sword?

No, of course not, because that's the meat/AKA skeletons they hope you never find out about. Trust me, there will be no mention of any of this or any doctrine at all, in their campaign scam they'll be running soon, in a neighborhood near you.

They should rename the campaign "Truth Revoked" or "Truth...what's that" or "Truth...Just Give Us Your Damn Money!!" In the comments, leave your other suggestions as to what they could name this BS PR campaign.

It's funny too, because they act like they just discovered the Internet and banner ads and are SO EXCITED..LOL!! I guess that silly Mormon God/Jesus Christ is a little behind the times as usual.

Maybe he was too busy up there on Kolob, running around doing his genealogy or having sex with his wives without number, to pay attention to what was happening here on his little earth? He's like, "holy shit, my church is going down the toilet, Satan is stronger than ever and I'd better re-tool things quickly as those dumbasses running it don't have a damn clue."

Also, watch for the human statue, barely a pulse and non-expressive Richard G. Scott, Mormon Apostle, that usually talks excessively about sexual purity and morality, to say twice; "I'm just so excited." No matter how often he tries to say how excited he is, while straining to look excited; he doesn't look excited...LOL!!

This video smacks of desperation and it just look like 2 old men, M. Russell Ballard(direct descendant of Joseph Smith, who doesn't care if missionaries get hurt or killed) and Richard G. Scott, who realize their time has come and gone and that they have failed miserably and now they are desperately trying one last ditch effort to recover something that isn't recoverable.


Ballard Not Caring If More Missionaries Die-MP3 Download

I mean hell, give me billions of dollars to work with and let's see what kind of marketing campaign I can put together. Are these guys really that dumb and clueless? Actually, they are that dumb and just plain cheap and are just now realizing that they are going to have to spend a lot more of Jesus' sacred mall and downtown reconstruction money, if they have any shot of getting any converts and more tithing money and donations rolling in.

It also helps keep them in business, when brainwashed customers voluntarily give them 10% of their money and all other kinds of donations, even though they get very little or nothing in return.

Ballard says something like "the day of waiting for something to happen is over." Well, what the hell were you thinking there Ballard? After all, aren't you the head of the Church's missionary efforts and have been for a damn long time? You have no one to blame but your old pathetic self!!

I think the average number of baptisms per missionary, all around the world, is between 4-5 per missionary per year. That of course factors in the missionaries in South and Central America, who are baptizing 20+ people on their missions. Many USA missionaries and those in Europe, are lucky to even get one in 2 years.

If this was a corporation and these were their sales numbers; they'd all be fired, starting with CEO and they'd probably be bankrupt too. Of course it helps out when the salesmen all work for free and actually pay the corporation cult for the privilege of not making any sales and their utter failure.

The magic of the late 80's and early 90's is gone forever folks and will never be regained, as people just aren't as stupid and gullible anymore, with the truth being spread around the world on the Internet. Isn't this new information age wonderful?

They can no longer hide their skeletons in the closet, while pretending that they don't exist, as they have fallen out and are now laying everywhere you look, all over the ground.

They are so far behind reality and the truth is already out there for the world, and the cat is out of the bag and can't be put back in and the massive exodus out of Mormonism is only going to continue to roll forth, like that giant stone they always reference from Daniel.

It's amazing that the Mormon Hierarchy have allowed this video to be seen by the public and that they even allow and encourage you to download it on their main site, in order to share it with family, friends, etc, as they encourage in the video itself, which is exactly what I'm doing. A big thanks to "Truth Seeker" for making this video available for all of us and for allowing me to write the description.

In addition to allowing downloading for personal and noncommercial use, they also say, "In addition, materials may be reproduced by media personnel for use in traditional public news forums unless otherwise indicated." I would say that Google video is pretty traditional, as is blogger.

Their wish is my command, so enjoy everyone, as I'm just reporting the news!!

I wonder if the influence of "Mormon Truth" had any influence on them using "Truth Restored?" They read my blog all the time from the church office building and shut down my videos, but Nah...it's just a coincidence I'm sure?

But, I'm really looking forward to comments on this gem of a video and the new plan of Jesus Christ, called "Truth (now) Restored."

Thanks everyone for your support and all that you do to spread the truth of the Mormon cult to the world.

Samuel the Utahnite

Where is God?!! My Thoughts And Feelings Right After The Tragic Virginia Tech Massacre.

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Where is God?!!

So, here’s the deal…if there really was a loving, all knowing and all powerful God out there in the big sky, that hovers over this earth; he wouldn’t stand(or float) by and watch 60 innocent people get shot, including 32 that were brutally murdered on the campus of Virginia Tech this week.

So, for all you die-hard God lovers and defenders out there, let me get this straight; this wonderful God, that loves everyone so very much…watched as this evil, psychopathic bastard bought his guns and ammo, hatched his plan, loaded the guns and proceeded to his personal, one man massacre and slaughter.

Of course God also knows everything that happens before it happens(one of the bragging rights, perks and qualifications for Godhood), so he even knew before this son of a bitch was born, that he was going to go on a shooting spree and slaughter innocent people before killing himself like the coward he was, and allowed him to be born anyway and then commit the slaughter. God did nothing but watch!!

It must be embarrassing to claim your God is so loving, caring and powerful, when he stands idly by and never does a goddamn thing to prove what you’re saying is actually true. What love, what compassion? Like I recently asked a TBM friend;, what exactly has God done for you or this earth recently? He was silent and I kept asking and he had no answer, because the answer is absolutely NOTHING!!

How can anyone actually believe that bullshit and say it with a straight face. To the contrary; everything that happens on this earth, especially the rape, murder, torture, mass executions, genocide, starvation, etc, proves the exact opposite.

In fact, anything good that happens on this earth, is because of what MAN does and not what some mysterious candy ass in the sky does. When a criminal is prosecuted, it is man and man’s law that does the punishment, not God or God’s law.

When someone is saved, it is man that does the saving, not some God. When a killer is caught and punished, it is man doing the catching, not God. So again, I ask the question, where is God? It appears that his no where to be found.

Oh yeah, and this is the same guy that according to the “perfect/infallible Bible”, wants us to literally die for him if needed and spend eternity on our knees, worshiping his ass? Give me a break!! That God must be an asshole!!

Like Ray says, if that’s how we are going to spend eternity, I’ll take my chances in hell, which would be better than the “personal hell” of kissing some guy's ass and feet for all eternity, who never did a thing for me and that I never personally knew.

Also, I’m going to start addressing the “God Apologists” by the proper term, because that is exactly what they are. My advice to them is to shut the hell up and allow this all powerful God to start defending himself for a change. Isn’t it time for God to God-up? Quit babying God and let him fight his own battles for a change!! If he's so damn all powerful and can move mountains, let him defend himself and explain why he allows all of the daily atrocities to take place.

Why does he, this all powerful, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent God, need some weak, pathetic creatures(that he created of course), that were born worthless sinners(all of which most Christians believe), to constantly defend his pathetic ass and lack of intervention. Oh yeah, it’s that whole free agency nonsense, I forgot.

So, if God can't do anything to ever intervene, why does Satan have so much power? Don't all the religious people always blame Satan for everything? Satan did this, Satan put it in his heart or mind, Satan has great power, etc, etc. Give me a break...it's starting to sound like the religious fanatics worship Satan and think he has more power than God and guess what? Looking at this earth, it certainly appears that way to me, which is to say that their Satan is whooping God's ass!!

Yeah, it's really too bad that Satan has more influence than God, isn't it? I guess God's so called plan is failing miserably, but oh yeah, he knew it would, because once again, "he knows the beginning from the end", he's the "Alpha and Omega" and all that other nonsense.

Let God himself(herself/itself) come down in all his wonderful and powerful glory and splendor and defend himself against these charges on CNN, MSNBC, THE BBC or Fox News. Oh yeah, I guess that’s what the second coming is all about, right guys?

You know, when God/Jesus Christ returns to the earth and finally appears, in order to fry all the non-Jesus believers to a crisp, no matter how good of a life they‘ve lived, no exceptions? Where is God now? Is he still hiding in the clouds or maybe a burning bush? Apparently so, because he is NO WHERE to be found that I or anyone else has seen. Oh yeah, Joseph Smith saw him..LOL!!

A month or so ago, I debated a guy on a Skypecast that some of you where there for. This guy was so far mentally gone, that I truly believe there is no hope for him and he should check into a mental hospital or a padded room ASAP. He was one of these fanatical Evangelicals that I have talked so much about and a complete disgrace to mankind and all humanity. He barely even qualifies as human.

He truly believed(due to his fanatical religious beliefs), that he, myself and everyone else was a sinner from the second they were born and deserved DEATH. He admitted that he felt he deserved to be executed, burned to death, etc.

This debate happened right after all of those children in that New York apartment building, had tragically burned to death in a horrific fire. I asked him specifically about that tragedy and this pathetic guy said that they DESERVED to die, felt nothing for them and thought it was a good thing, because after all; “they were all sinners from birth.”

That was when he said that everyone, including himself deserved to burn to death, be executed, starve to death, etc. He had no mercy, in the name of his supposed loving, all powerful God. This is some seriously sick shit!!

These type of fanatical losers dehumanize everything and everyone and they‘re pathetic in every sense of the word.

These people are also very dangerous to all mankind and in reality, they have no values, morals or integrity and yet they consider me the evil, vile one, because I don’t believe as they do, in their God/Jesus combo, that makes no sense to any rational mind. Thank their God I don’t believe as they do!!

If they don’t value human life at all and truly believe that everyone deserves to die, be executed or literally burned to death; they could go out and kill anyone anyway they choose to and justify it in the name of their God, which happens all the time.

In fact, when it comes to mass murder and executions of innocent non-believers, since the time of Christ, I think the Christians, very sadly, have kicked the Muslims ass. Of course they want everyone to think that it’s the Muslims and everyone else that is doing all the killing and that they’ve never done something so awful. Ever hear of the Christian crusades?

I mean hey, after all, the Christians have the fine examples of their Prophets like Moses, who slaughtered countless thousands of innocents, which included men, women and children, in the name of his/their God, right? Ever heard of "thou shalt not kill?" Apparently Moses, nor his God from a bush/cloud were familiar with that teaching at all, since it was his God commanding mass genocide.

In all reality, what the mass murdering SOB did at Virginia Tech this week, which was horrific, pales in comparison to all of the innocent men, women and children that Moses ordered slaughtered and the virgin women raped, in the Christians beloved, perfect Bible, in the name of God. Why can’t Christians see this, when it’s so obvious? Where’s the equal outrage?

People condemn the guy from Virginia Tech, as I do and rightfully so, but then they praise Moses as a great man, who parted the red sea? What am I missing here? Moses should be condemned by all of Christianity as a very evil, vile, mass murdering man.

The Lafferty brothers here in Utah killed a young lady and her child, in the name of God, claiming that he commanded them to do it. Joseph Smith had sex with other men’s wives and little girls, in secret behind Emma’s back, all in the name of his fabricated God. Are you getting the picture here?

Brigham Young taught that blacks should be executed if they mix their seed with Caucasians, along with execution for many other different sins.

This teaching was known as blood atonement and was once again taught in the name of his God, not to mention the horrific racism and teachings that “blacks are the seed of Cain” and “cursed”, that has been taught in Mormonism since the very beginning dating back to 1830, also in the name of their God. If you don't believe me, just read the Book of Mormon and how the Lamanites were cursed with black or dark skin, due to their sins.

Now, I only make the comparison between the evil executioner at Virginia Tech and Moses, in order to point out the absurdity and evilness of the Bible, which allows anyone to justify anything, including mass murder and genocide, especially those that consider the Bible to be the “perfect” and "infallible" word of God, as many do. At least the Mormons got that right, but too bad they don't apply the same "as far as translated correctly" to their horrendous, bogus, hate-filled Book of Mormon.

Anyone that condemns the mass murders this week at Virginia Tech, which should be everyone, should also be openly condemning the Bible, in order to not be a complete hypocrite and look ridiculous.

Now, I realize that many people out there consider themselves to be good Christians, that go to church every week and that they really don’t even read or study the Bible too much. Many are not even aware of the horrific and destructive teachings of the Bible, because only the good things are focused on when their church teaches them.

The bottom line is that it’s time for people to start using their brains and trying to get things done themselves, instead of waiting for the big man in the sky to intervene or do anything, because he has no intention of ever doing anything, never has and never will. The God of the Bible is a fraud and a mass murderer and complicit in every crime that happens on earth!!

When the gunman at Virginia Tech decided to slaughter 32 innocent students this week, he did it because he wanted to and took joy in it, even smiling while killing the students. When Moses did it, he also took joy and great pleasure in it and did it all in the name and honor of his God, whom he wanted to please and obey. Brigham Young ordered the execution of innocents, like Mountain Meadows Massacre, once again, in the name of his God. Anyone seeing the pattern yet?

Whenever there have been great crimes or mass executions, it was the person or people that decided to do it and not from some direct orders from some God in the sky...or at least I sure hope not. In other words, that God and that Bible or some Biblical type book, is the inspiration and justification for most of the atrocities and wars on earth.

So, I ask; why would God stop the executions at Virginia Tech, when he was the author of and orderer of the mass executions of the Old Testament? Christians and Mormons even have a bigger problem than that; they claim that the God/Jehovah/LORD of the Old Testament, was later born as Jesus Christ in the flesh.

Of course Mormons believe that Jesus is a God, but also the Son of another God(The Father) and a separate person from God(heavenly father), while Christians believe that Jesus is God and both the son of and father of…..himself…LOL!! He prayed to himself, threw his voice from the heavens like a ventriloquist, was the only begotten of himself, spoke of a father he did not have and all the other lunacy that most mainstream Christians believe.

Either way you believe, whether it’s Mormon, Christian or some other nutty belief system involving the Bible or a Biblical book, it’s all fatally flawed and makes ZERO common sense and is a complete joke.

So the Jesus of the Old Testament was seriously, raging pissed and was ordering the mass executions of non-believers, sinners or those dancing around a golden calf, while the Jesus of the new testament, was a “turn the other cheek” pacifist?

Of course Jesus did occasionally slip into his old raging pissed-off self/alter ego of the Old Testament, when he stated that “he came with a sword” and that everyone should “hate their Mother, Father, Brother, Sister”, etc and kiss his ASS or they’d be screwed for all Eternity.

Hey maybe Jesus was just a normal guy who pretended to be the guy that was fabricated in the Old Testament and named Jehovah, to justify all of their hate crimes and mass murder and rape...ya think?!! Good thing that Jesus went and studied Buddha's teachings or he would have been all about hate and murder.

People at Virginia Tech are now praying to said God for healing, when the very same God couldn’t, wouldn’t and didn’t even prevent the mass murder to begin with.

Why would God heal them, when he didn’t give a shit and allowed the executions to happen in the first place?

Doesn’t it make more sense, if you were God, to prevent the horrific murders to begin with, that now requires the healing that they are praying for, than to allow 60 people to be shot and 32 of those executed by a mass murderer? If he wasn’t there for them before the tragedy, why the hell would he be there now?

One student said that “God is the one we need to be talking to.” Oh really? You need to be talking to an invisible man in the sky that can’t and won’t respond and who did nothing to stop mass executions? What makes anyone think that he's actually listening and why would he? This is the same "God" that sat idly by and watched 60 people get shot and didn't lift his pinkie and now he's going to listen to your prayers?

Personally, I wouldn’t waste my time talking to him, when you should be talking and consoling students, family members of the victims, friends and meeting with live, human counselors, that are in the flesh and that can actually respond to you and help you. Talking to an invisible man in the sky, who doesn't respond and may or may not exist, isn’t going to help the situation one iota.

This week has been a very tragic one for sure and many people are suffering tremendously, due to the actions of this evil bastard, with no conscience, who butchered so many innocent people and destroyed their promising futures. He ripped apart families and destroyed countless lives.

I understand the need of people to need and want to believe in and turn to “God” or some higher force or power during their time of desperation, need and excruciating pain(I‘ve been there myself), but I wonder if they’ve ever wondered why “God” wasn’t there for them before the tragic events took place?

It just doesn’t make any logical sense at all to me. I know that it isn't popular to ask these questions during such a difficult time, but they must be raised, as many have raised them before and many will raise them in the future and that's why I wrote this post.

What’s funny is that I and many others, specifically ex-Mormons, want to believe in a God or a higher, all-powerful being, but we just can’t find any legitimate reasons to. There are plenty of more reasons to not believe in said God, than to believe in him. Why would he present us with such overwhelming evidence in the negative? Oh yeah, it's a trial of our faith, right? If that's the case, what is this life really; some type of sick game then?

Obviously we all came from somewhere and something created this planet we are living on, but I don’t believe that any of us have any idea who this being or force really is, how we got here, who created us, how we came into existence, or where exactly we are going after this earthly experience. Obviously it has to all be for something, because saying it's all for nothing, is far more illogicial then thinking life has a purpose and that we'll be reunited with our loved ones in the next realm of existence.

I cannot and refuse to believe in the pathetic, evil, racist, violent, slavery and rape promoting, mass murderer of a “Christian God” that is represented in the Bible, that has inspired so much bloodshed and death since the beginning of time.

In fact, why is anyone so desperate, that they need to believe in this horrendous being, as described and defined in the Bible?

For those that claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and to talk to God and that he responds to you in return, just like another human being would, I’d like to ask you four things:

1) What does he look like?
2)What tone of voice does he have?
3)What exactly is he saying to you?
4)Are you sure that the voices in your head are a healthy thing and not just a sign of a more serious issue?

We all have thoughts and ideas in our head, which is our own self and our own conscience, not some voice from on high. I used to believe that the voices I heard were from God, directing me, but I was a Mormon cult member back then and now I realize that when I have thoughts in my mind, IT IS ME, not God. Time to give yourself credit folks for those good ideas and not some invisible God.

It’s pretty scary to me when we have a bunch of people running around obeying mysterious voices in their heads, which are telling them what to do, which they claim is coming from some invisible, all powerful man in the sky, who refuses to physically show himself and hasn‘t been seen for over 2000 years or ever. What am I missing here?

Apparently the voices in my head, that abruptly left when I discovered that Mormonism/all religion is a complete fraud, were due to my cult upbringing and brainwashing from birth, which taught me that God was always talking to me through his Holy Ghost. Organized religion has been created for money and power and completely fucks normal people up and in some cases, turns them into fanatical, irrational nut-jobs that can no longer be a part of normal society or carry on normal conversations, except in their head, with this invisible God, who never stops talking to them.

Even more scary for me, at least here in the USA, is that we don’t even want to elect someone to be the President or most other political offices, if they aren’t a “person of faith.” Somehow, we feel safer having someone in the oval office that relies on the “big, invisible man”, that "talks to God" and hears these mysterious voices in their head. Sadly, I used to count myself among this majority group.

Personally, I’d rather have someone that did what they did because it was the right thing to do, made sense, was logical, morally right, etc, then someone that did or didn’t do things, things because “God told them to.” Holy shit!! I mean what’s scarier…Mitt Romney doing what Hinckley or Monson(that claim to speak for God as his only authorized servants on the entire earth) tells him to do, or Mitt Romney following the voices in his own head, that he attributes to the "Mormon God.”

A lot of people follow the voices in their head, as we were reminded this week with the tragedy of Virginia Tech and look at the horrific results. Dictators, terrorists, mass murders and cult leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Saddam Hussein, Bin Laden, Hugo Chavez, the Lafferty Brothers, Moses, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, the current Mormon Hierarchy(Gordon B. Hinckley) and many others have either followed or now follow the voices in their head and look at the suffering that has ensued because of it.

Finally, I’d like to once again remind everyone of another thing this tragedy at Virginia Tech reminded me of; Gordon B. Hinckley is a massive fraud and doesnillogical’t represent any God, rather a cult corporation. The Mormon doctrines claim that he, the Prophet, is the only authorized man on the entire planet, that is allowed to speak for and on behalf of God.

This only man on earth, authorized to speak for God, who claims to be a Prophet, Seer and Revelator, that supposedly receives revelations for the whole world, receives nothing.

The night before the Tsunami hit and killed 250,000+ people, he was laughing it up with Larry King and presenting him with his personal genealogy.

He can’t predict or prophesy about any natural disasters, like earthquakes, hurricanes(Katrina) or mass murder rampages, like we saw this week at Virginia Tech and a month or so ago at Trolley Square, right in the backyard of God’s only authorized man on the earth. I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again; what good does this guy do? Prophet, Seer and Revelator? Of What?

In fact, very sadly, 15 year old Kirsten Hinckley, someone directly related to Gordon B. Hinckley, was brutally killed by the psychopath, proving that he can’t even protect his very own family members, let alone Mormon church members or other people of the world. Wake up folks, the guy is a fraud and very well paid for it!! He is the CEO of Mormon fraud and is laughing at all of you(all the way to the bank), that believe he walks and talks with God.

Gordon B. Hinckley can’t predict pedophilia, sexual abuse or rape, even if it’s in the very church that he pretends and claims to lead or done by leaders that “were called of God by the spirit of discernment."(John D. Lee-Seventy) In other words, Gordon B. Hinckley is a lying, fraudulent cult leader that knows nothing more than anybody else.

In fact, in any case where the Mormon cult is accused of guilt, Hinckley, God’s only supposed mouthpiece and CEO on earth, sends out Jesus Christ’s personal lawyers to trash, discredit and re-victimize the victims, to make sure that the image of the Mormon cult isn’t tarnished.

It is shameful behavior and Gordon B. Hinckley is the CEO of this Mormon cult of shame and destruction and responsible for it all, in the name of his God of course, just like Moses. There is no difference between the Pope or Gordon B. Hinckley, except that the Pope actually tries to do some good at some point. In the end, they are both complete frauds, along with their mass murdering God.

I wish the victims and their families from Virginia Tech and all the others around the world, that have suffered tragedy, the very best and you are all in my thoughts constantly. Every day, masses of people are brutally killed, raped and tortured on this earth and the very God that so many people are praying to for comfort, through whatever religion or God they believe in, would be the same all powerful God that is allowing it all to happen, as he sits and watches, in the name of some nonsense called "free agency."

Too bad "free agency" makes this all powerful God completely powerless, while their Satan is running the show. What good is it to be all powerful if you can't ever use your power. Maybe lex Luthor hung some Kryptonite around his neck?

I'll ask everyone again, what I asked at the beginning....

Where is God?!!

Samuel the Utahnite