The Mormon Church's "Official" Stance On Gay Marriage And How They Encourage Members To Get Involved Politically To Stop It!!

I love how Gordon B. Hinckley says that the Church never gets involved in politics but then I read the following from their "official policy":

Same-Gender Marriages:

The Church opposes same-gender marriages and any efforts to legalize such marriages. Church members are encouraged "to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials to preserve the purposes and sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman, and to reject all efforts to give legal authorization or other official approval or support to marriages between persons of the same gender"

When it says this in their official policy, that they encourage Church members "to appeal to legislators, judges, and other government officials", I call that getting politically involved. By encouraging their members to do this, they are in fact getting politically involved not to mention, encouraging their members to be bigots. We know as a fact that they spent millions in California and Hawaii to fight against gay marriage. It was organized through the Stake Presidents and Bishops. I sadly must say, that I used to agree with the Church and was opposed to gay marriage.

During the time I was in the process of learning and leaving the Church, I read two things that impacted me immensely and showed me the error of my ways. One was a letter from a former Mormon Bishop to Boyd K Packer in regards to his gay 13 year old son. The other thing, referenced in the letter, was a talk given at BYU, later turned into a pamphlet, by Boyd K. Packer called "To The One."

I was horrified to say the least and immediately realized that my views were wrong, heavily influenced by a homophobic, anti-gay Church and my entire perspective changed 180 degrees. It was very emotional for me to realize how I had allowed the Mormon Church to influence me so much as to make me basically a bigot and homophobic. I was sickened and saddened for who I had been, but then relieved to know that I had learned the error of my ways and that I wasn't that person anymore.

I felt like I was born again that day and became full of love, compassion and tolerance like I'd never had or felt in my life. I couldn't believe how evil the Mormon Church really was in regards to their anti-gay teachings. They are truly an abomination and the opposite of inspired by God!! Jesus taught tolerance and loving your neighbor, etc, not hate and intolerance. So, if they are truly the Church of Jesus Christ, then why do they teach the complete opposite of what Jesus taught? It is disgusting and repugnant!!

Also, I had read where Hinckley admitted in his interview with the San Francisco Chronicle that he didn't know if gay people were born that way or not, just that they had a problem. Then Boyd KKK Packer also admits that he doesn't know what causes it. So, their official stance is, "we don't know why people are gay", yet they want to punish them and not let them be together, marry or have sex for the rest of their life.

They claim to speak with the authority of God, yet they don't even know why people are gay? I'm sure that if they had any connection whatsoever to God, that God might try to help them out on this one. This just further proved to me that they indeed had no link whatsoever to God or any inspiration whatsoever.

Hinckley's SFC Interview:

http://www.tungate.com/GBH4.htm

**correction**-The SFC Interview touched on the Churches opposing gay marriage, etc but the actual quote that I referred to above was in the Larry King Interview from December of 2004. The actual question and answer were the following:

King: But as the morales have changed - for example, I know that the Church is opposed to gay marriage.

HINCKLEY: Yes.

KING: Do you have an alternative? Do you like the idea of civil unions?

HINCKLEY: Well, we're not anti-gay. We are pro-family. Let me put it that way.

And we love these people and try to work with them and help them. We know they have a problem. We want to help them solve that problem.

KING: A problem they caused, or they were born with?

HINCKLEY: I don't know. I'm not an expert on these things. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things. The fact is, they have a problem.

KING: Do you favor some sort of state union?

HINCKLEY: Well, we want to be very careful about that, because that - whatever may lead to gay marriage, we're not in favor of.

We - many people don't get married. Goodness sakes alive. You know that.

Many people who have to discipline themselves. If they transgress, they become subject to the discipline of the Church. But we try in every way that we know how to help them, to assist them, to bless their lives.

KING: It's hard to be a Mormon, isn't it?

HINCKLEY: No. It's wonderful.

KING: Not hard.

HINCKLEY: No, no. It's just wonderful. It's demanding. Great expectations. I should say so. But it's wonderful.

Here's the link:

http://www.tungate.com/2004_dec_lk.htm

Anyway, I just thought that I'd share these two things that helped me so much for anyone else out there that hasn't had a chance to read them. Get out a tissue for the first one and then get prepared to be very angry for the second one.

The Bishop's letter: http://www.lds-mormon.com/hardy.shtml

Boyd KKK Packers anti-gay talk: http://www.lds-mormon.com/tto.shtml

Samuel the Utahnite

Some Interesting Tidbits On The Mormon Church(AKA, The Corporation of the President) And What They Are Invested In!!

TRADEMARKS

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Mormon are trademarks of Intellectual Reserve, Inc.

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,120-1-46-1,00.html

Proof that the Church refers to themselves as "The Corporation of the President."

Our Identity and How to Contact Us
This site is owned and operated by Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,5167-1-2681-1,00.html

I thought that this was an interesting link showing how it all fits together,at least certain parts of the corporation:

http://lds.org/ldsfoundation/aboutus/0,7115,420-1-0,00.html

Look guys at all the things we can donate to:

http://lds.org/ldsfoundation/accelwork/0,7089,408-1-0,00.html

Here are our options of how we want to give that gift:

Cash
Check, credit card, money order, wire transfer, or automatic bank withdrawal

http://lds.org/ldsfoundation/ways/1,16734,419-1-0,00.html

Strange, I thought that the Church discouraged credit card debt, I guess unless you are giving money to God and his Church.

Plus, look at all the assets we can give them too!! How nice of them:

• Securities
Stocks, bonds, or mutual funds

• Personal residence
Home, duplex, or condominium

• Farm or ranch
Family-owned or inherited property

• Commercial real estate
Office buildings, apartments, or other rental property

• Unimproved property
Raw or partially developed sites

• Art
Paintings, sculptures, or other fine art

• Retirement plan assets
IRAs, Keoghs, or other qualified plans

• Patents, royalties, or copyrights
Oil, music, inventions, etc.

• Life insurance policy with cash value
Mature policies with accumulated cash value

• Collectibles or other tangible personal property
Coins, stamps, books, artifacts, animals, etc.

• Equipment or inventory
Medical equipment, computers, machinery, etc.

http://lds.org/ldsfoundation/ways/1,16734,419-1-0,00.html

Deseret Mutual Benefit Association was restructured as a mutual insurance company; its owners continued to be the LDS Church (under the Corporation of the President) and its subsidiaries. The name was changed to DESERET MUTUAL INSURANCE COMPANY, doing business as DESERET MUTUAL.

http://www.dmba.com/nsc/dmba/history.htm

SuzieQ#1 had a great post the other day regarding Deseret Mutual Benefit Administrators and their saving thrift plan.

http://www.dmba.com/nsc/savings/savinfo.htm

If you look under Longleaf Value Equity, one of the fund managers, you'll find some of the companies that they are invested in, therefore the Church is also invested in them.

Common Stock 82.0%
Vivendi Universal SA 6.7
Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V. 6.2
Yum! Brands, Inc. 5.9
General Motors Corporation 5.6
Cemex S.A. de C.V. 5.6
The Walt Disney Corporation 5.4
Liberty Media Corporation 5.0
Comcast Corporation 5.0
FedEx Corporation 5.0
The DIRECTV Group, Inc. 4.9
The NipponKoa Insurance Company, Ltd. 4.8
Pioneer Natural Resources Company 4.3
Aon Corporation 4.2
Waste Management, Inc. 3.3
Telephone and Data Systems, Inc. 3.3
Diageo 2.8
Knight-Ridder, Inc. 2.1
Level 3 Communications, Inc. 1.9
Corporate Bonds 2.3
Level 3 Communications, Inc. 2.3
Cash Reserves 15.5
Other Assets and Liabilities, net 0.2
100.0%

So, lets see....The Church is generating income from Direct TV and Comcast, which show and make great profits from hard-core porno. Disney, which shows R-rated movies through Touchstone. Also, Diageo, which is an alcohol and spirits company with such brands as Smirnoff, Guinness, Baileys, Cuervo, etc.

http://www.diageobrands.com/indexx.html

It's nice to finally be able to find the evidence and the connections that we all knew were out there somewhere, so it comes as no surprise. Since they do have a little interest in Diageo, maybe that explains why they wanted the restaurants to sell alcohol in their mall. I guess if they can't make money directly by owning the physical ground of the restaurants, they can make it through alcohol being sold to the restaurants. I'm sure that somewhere they have many more investments in alcohol that we just haven't found yet. If anyone finds more, lets us know.

Thanks SuzieQ#1 for your awesome post a week or so ago. I just wanted to mention it again so that everyone that didn't see it, can see it again. You financial experts out there, if we are somehow wrong on these connections that we've made, let us know. I don't pretend to be an expert on these matters but by doing my own homework on what SuzieQ#1 posted last week, it seemed pretty compelling to me.

So, I see it like this; The Church owns Deseret Mutual Benefit Association which has a saving thrift plan which is managed by several Investment Fund Managers, one of which is Longleaf Value Equity, which shows in it's portfolio and its SEMI-ANNUAL REPORT a t J u n e 3 0 , 2 0 0 5, the companies that I listed above. However, I do find it very appropriate that they also have an investment in a waste management company since the Church is a big pile of crap!!

So, now I ask, is this a Church or a Corporation? I think we all know the answer to that question.

Let me just say that This just backs up everything I've said about the Church being run by a bunch of Hypocrites!! Do as I say, not as I do!! That is indeed their motto and they live it perfectly. It's my opinion that if the Church is what they say they are in every General Conference, then they need to quit talking the talk and walk the walk. If they truly are so against alcohol and pornography,(Oaks said that porno is worse than hard drugs like cocaine) then how can they even touch anything that has anything to do with it? Isn't it amazing. First, the whole fiasco of them allowing alcohol to be served in their malls and now I find this information confirming everything, that they really don't care what they have their hands on, as long as it makes them money.

I don't know who is going to read this and where you are in your life as far as the Mormon Church goes, but I hope that this post helps everyone to have a better picture and perspective of exactly what is the goal of the Mormon Church; to make money at any cost!! Alcohol, porno, R-rated movies, it doesn't really matter as long as they make money. In other words, their fake and pretend values, that they preach at every General Conference, only apply to the common folks, not to Gods servants as they call themselves. Obviously God has given them a pass in his name to not have to live their own teachings as long as it makes money for God's kingdom. Too bad everyone doesn't get that pass.

There is no excuse whatsoever for the Mormon Church or anybody that is a General Authority in the Mormon Church, such as Marriott, that should ever have anything to do with profiting from alcohol, porno or even R-rated movies. You can't have it both ways guys!! What kind of example are they setting? Apparently they don't really care now, do they? After all, they are God's annointed and can do anything they want and they answer to nobody!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Time For Another Mormon Prophet Post Featuring Gordon B. Hinckley!!!

Well, I've covered Hinckley pretty well in my original two posts and then here and there in subsequent posts but I don't think I'll ever get tired of exposing him and his words. Gordon B. Hinckley is the main reason that I'm now sitting on the outside looking in on the Mormon Church. Every interview that he did just revealed to me more and more that he was a fraud and didn't even have a testimony of what he was trying to say or in most cases, what he was trying not to say. Anyway, I knew that on several occasions, that he had stated that the Church was either true or a fraud, etc. Well, the other day, I found another instance where he said it. Anyway, here are some of my favorite all time quotes from Gordon B. Hinckley that in my opinion, shed quite a bit of light on how he really feels. I'm sure that I'll be doing many more of these posts on Hinckley as I continue to find more of his quotes.

Here are the quotes. This first one is from the Gordon B. Hinckley speech, “The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith,” Ensign, Nov. 2002, 78:


We declare without equivocation that God the Father and His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, appeared in person to the boy Joseph Smith.

When I was interviewed by Mike Wallace on the 60 Minutes program, he asked me if I actually believed that. I replied, “Yes, sir. That’s the miracle of it.”

That is the way I feel about it. Our whole strength rests on the validity of that vision. It either occurred or it did not occur. If it did not, then this work is a fraud. If it did, then it is the most important and wonderful work under the heavens.

Now from Gordon B. Hinckley's speech, “Loyalty,” Ensign, May 2003, 58


Now may I say a word concerning loyalty to the Church.

We see much indifference. There are those who say, "The Church won't dictate to me how to think about this, that, or the other, or how to live my life."

No, I reply, the Church will not dictate to any man how he should think or what he should do. The Church will point out the way and invite every member to live the gospel and enjoy the blessings that come of such living. The Church will not dictate to any man, but it will counsel, it will persuade, it will urge, and it will expect loyalty from those who profess membership therein.

When I was a university student, I said to my father on one occasion that I felt the General Authorities had overstepped their prerogatives when they advocated a certain thing. He was a very wise and good man. He said, "The President of the Church has instructed us, and I sustain him as prophet, seer, and Revelator and intend to follow his counsel."

(Keep in mind now that he is speaking of people being obedient to him, Gordon B. Hinckley, who is now the Mormon Prophet, Seer and Revelator. So he is telling people to be obey him and anything that he might say. That my friends is a cult leader, plain and simple!!)

Then he said:

Each of us has to face the matter—either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and kingdom of God, or it is nothing.


In Gordon B. Hinkley's, “My Testimony,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, 51, he said the following:

I thank my Father in Heaven for the testimony I have of the reality of the First Vision. I have stood among the trees where Joseph knelt as a boy, and heard the whisperings of the Spirit that it happened as he said it happened. I have read the words of critics, who from 1820 until now have tried to destroy the validity of that account. They have made much of the fact that there were several versions and that the account as we now have it was not written until 1838. So what? I find security for my faith in the simplicity of his narrative, in its lack of argument, in its straightforward reasonableness, and in the fact that he sealed his testimony with his life’s blood. Could there have been a stronger endorsement?

Yeah, so what Hinckley? So what? You claim to be a prophet of God, a Prophet, Seer and Revelator, I say this, so what? Who cares, right? You claim your Church is the one and only true Church on the face of the earth as revealed to Joseph Smith, so what? So what? So What? So what?

You, Hinckley and your Church are frauds and you know it!! That's why when you read the critics words that bring up great points, like the fact that Joseph Smith didn't write his own history, that there are several versions, the one that you use now wasn't even written until 1838 and that no one even knew until then that Joseph had claimed to see the Father and the Son in 1820, all you can say is so what? That's a pretty piss poor response to your critics from God's one and only Prophet, Seer and Revelator.

To me, it sounds like the attitude of someone that can't dispute what is being said by the critics and is looking for a quick way out that will make the Morgbots relax and laugh a little, which is exactly what they did when he made that remark. They laughed!! Ha Ha!! Yeah...the critics have pointed out all of these true things and so what? Ha ha ha!! It's just insane that people are so brainwashed, like I once was and that they continue believing the crap that spews out of his mouth. Hinckley knows the truth. Let me share something else with you that he said in the same talk that should prove that he knows more than anyone else. He loves to brag about how long he has been a General Authority so that proves that he should know EVERYTHING about the Church which I'm sure he does. He said the following, trying to be ever so humble:

"I have now served as a General Authority longer than any living man other than the President of the Church. I think I have worked in the administrative offices of the Church longer than anyone now living. I have seen and known for nearly sixty years in a personal way all who have served in the First Presidency, the Council of the Twelve, the First Council of the Seventy, and more recently those of the First and Second Quorums of the Seventy, as well as the Presiding Bishopric. They have been and are mortal men, not entirely without human weaknesses. Two or three out of very many during that long time have stumbled. But I believe that no better men are to be found in any cause anywhere on earth. They have not taken this honor unto themselves, but they have been called of God, as was Aaron. They serve in a spirit of consecration and love. They are men of prayer and faith, men who hold the priesthood and in humility exercise divine authority. Their only objective is to build and enhance the kingdom."

Gordon B. Hinckley has worked for the Church basically since he was 19, when he served his mission and became an AP about 6 months into his mission. Then on returning, one of the first things he did was to go and meet with the First Presidency to report on the status of the Church in Europe.(How many missionaries got or get that opportunity?) He then went to work for the Church and except for a brief time when he worked for the Railroad in Salt Lake, he has worked for the Church ever since, both before and after. He left the railroad to be the Churches PR man, thus explaining why he is so good with the BS.

So he has been basically supported by the Church ever since he was 21 or so. Let's see, he's 95 now. So for about the last 74 years, he has had anything he wanted without any financial worries, thanks to the Church. How would it be to be so coddled your whole life. I bet most of us could live to 95 with his life. Now he lives in a multi-million dollar condo that is much bigger than most of our houses. He receives somewhere in the neighborhood of $500,000/year although we don't know for sure because that type of information is a secret and not available to us normal people. So, why do they serve again? It's for money, plain and simple. Money and security is the name of the game!! All they care about is keeping the fraud going so that they can all continue to reap the rewards, money and security. Those are the fruits of being a General Authority.

Anyway, I guess that's all I have to say for now but Hinckley makes me sick. Why would he continue to say that the Church could be a fraud? He says it simply to put questioning members of the Church into a comfort zone. These members think to themselves, "he certainly wouldn't mention to the world that the Church could be a fraud if it really was." In other words, Hinckley's just playing mind games with the membership. He probably gets a kick out of it. It's like saying to someone that wasn't sure about you, after paying them with a check, "I would never bounce a check or joking about how it was going to bounce sky high."

Now, in some cases, they might be joking but then again, there are the cases where they would be trying to make the worried individual feel comfortable and convince them that they are a good guy and that the check wouldn't bounce. So, then the person deposits the check and lo and behold, it bounces. Wow, it actually sounds like Mark Hoffman!! Everybody thought he was a great guy, including Hinckley at one point and he was bouncing checks all over the place for large sums of money. Not to mention that he was killing 2 people by blowing them up and had created 100's of forgeries.

Now, keep in mind, Hinckley had no idea that this stuff was happening and he had personally met, with Hoffman, in his own office at the Church office building on several occasions and not once, ever, did he suspect or receive a revelation from God or perceive that Hoffman was a murdering forger. I strongly feel that the blood of those two people that died, is all over the hands of the Church, specifically Gordon B. Hinckley. It also proves that he isn't inspired of God whatsoever. Surely God would have intervened, right? He wasn't the Prophet then but he was the one in the middle of everything. Not once, has he ever apologized for his involvement in the entire Mark Hoffman scandal, but then again, why should we be surprised? The Church never apologizes for anything!!

So my point is, Hinckley is bouncing his testimony like a bad check. He brings up what is the reality, that the Church is a fraud, while making a joke about it and making everyone feel comfortable that it isn't a fraud when in reality, it is a fraud and he knows that it is. Hinckley's testimony is no better than a bounced, rubber check!! Hinckley's testimony is nothing more than a forgery!! In other words, it isn't worth a cent!! But then I guess we could just use Hinckley's own words and say, SO WHAT!! Right? After all, that's what he says about the Churches critics!!

Another One Of My Many Mormon Mission Experiences In Argentina!! This Particular Time, I Could Have Died, In The Name Of Baptism Numbers!!

Well, I've shared several of my mission stories but I felt that I really needed to share this one since it could have cost me my life. When I think about it, the places we were late at night, walking home at 1 or 2 in the morning, etc, it's amazing that more Mormon Missionaries aren't harmed. We were told to stay out as long as it took to get the numbers and charlas(discussions). In Argentina, they take the siesta everyday starting from some time between 12 and 2 and going until at least 5, depending on where you are in the country. It's not the safest thing in the world for two "rich" American missionaries,as they perceived us to be, walking home at 1 in the morning in a country full of poverty.

I think about it now and man was I naive to the dangers that existed and it's obvious to me that my leaders, specifically the Mormon Mission President, didn't give a damn about my safety or any missionaries safety for that matter. As long as we got his numbers for him, I'm guessing that a Missionary losing his life would have been justified. All I can do now is be thankful that I'm alive and shake my head in disgust at how our lives were literally put at risk for baptism numbers and stats.

Anyway, we were told to make up those hours that we had lost during the siesta. In reality, we were supposed to work the siesta too and wake people up in the middle of their afternoon nap but we never did it. Nobody really did but then we felt that we needed to stay out late, as we were told to, to make up for that lost time. Anyway, this experience that I'm about to share was just another example of the pressure that we all felt, especially the Zone Leaders and what it could ultimately lead to. I'm just glad that I'm still hear to share the story.

Here's my story:

Lets see, we had gone to bed probably around 10:30, I was a very strict by the rules kind of missionary, especially when I was with a rebel missionary, which I was. Anyway, we had gone to bed, were sound asleep and about 1:00 am we heard one of our windows shatter in the bathroom.

Now I have to explain where we lived. We lived on top of the Church. It was a two story building and we lived on the roof basically. There was an outside spiral staircase that went from the second story to the roof. Anyway, we of course had no telephone or anything as is the case with a lot of missionaries in South America, especially back then. Also, you couldn't get to us unless you went through the Church and it was locked with a skeleton key.

So we heard the window shatter and it woke us both up. We were still kind of out of it and wondered what the hell was going on. So my companion went outside first and I followed and we walked to the front of the roof/building to look over and see where the rock came from. Now of course, the dumb asses throwing the rocks were still throwing them, not knowing that we were awake. Well, guess who it was? It was the Freakin Zonies of course!! Yeah, zonie is mission speak for Zone leaders!!

So, anyway, we shouted "hey, were coming" so that they would stop throwing the rocks at us. They of course were laughing and thought the whole thing was hilarious for some reason. We were still half asleep!! So, my comp went down to the bottom level, unlocked the door and let them in. They of course asked about the broken window and we told them it was our bathroom window, which was our only window and they laughed hysterically. We of course had to later clean up all of the glass that was all over our bathroom floor and take cold showers in an already freezing bathroom, but now with the very cold outside air coming in too, so we didn't find it funny at all!!

So, the reason that they had to come and wake us up at 1 am was for numbers, yep damn numbers. It was near the end of the month and they needed to get one more baptism in and they needed to be there early the next day for the interview. So they had come to do a work division with us so that they could cover their area and travel to the other area for the interview.

My companion took off running with one ZL to catch a train to that area....it was leaving in like 15 minutes and was the last train. Meanwhile, I was perfectly content to stay at our place with the other ZL. However, he didn't bring anything with him and he talked me into going to their apartment where I could get a hot shower, something I hadn't had in like 4-5 months.

I got dressed in my missionary clothes of course, still had to be a missionary, packed a few things and headed out. There was one more bus left for the night that came in like 15 minutes so we hurried out. If we missed that bus, it was like a 5 mile plus walk to the downtown and there were no taxis at that time of night. Anyway, the bus stop was right across like a field or a park that was in front of the Church. So we headed over there to the bus stop but on the way, we saw a group of guys coming toward us.

Now keep in mind, it's like almost 1:30 am and nobody else is around but these guys and us. I would say that there were at least 10-12 guys. We just kept walking straight to the bus stop but they cut us off and surrounded us. The one guy spoke very broken English and kept trying to talk to us. They knew who we were, American Mormon Missionaries. To top it off, these guys were wasted, had knives with them and weren't too friendly or happy to see us. Well, after 5-10 minutes(It seemed like an hour), they finally told us what they wanted. We were scared out of our minds as we were both wearing glasses and the one guy came over and removed both of our glasses.

What did they want? They wanted money of course from the rich Americans. Well, we had just gotten paid that day and we both had our entire months money in our wallets. My Mom had always taught me that nothing material is worth your life, so I was prepared to give them everything I had in my wallet, no questions asked, based on the situation we were in. The ZL of course was trying to test them and see how much they needed or wanted. Well, the bottom line is all they really wanted was money for beer. The ZL gave them the equivalent of like $5.00 and that was it.

They gave us back our glasses and we headed on to the bus stop, of course, shaking like a leaf and terrified. We could both barely even speak. I can't really explain this nervous feeling except to say that it was the type of feeling when you think you might actually die or get hurt very badly. It is an awful feeling and I've never felt that way before or after that experience.

I was left to reflect on why it happened, why we could have died that night and it was all for one thing, MISSION NUMBERS!! We were in bed, obeying mission rules, they weren't, but they were under so much pressure to get those damn numbers, that it could have cost us our lives. This particular ZL was a pretty good guy, we got along well, but his judgment that night was awful. I never would have done what he did when I was a ZL, never!! But that's why in my mission, I was no longer a ZL!! I would have told them to go screw themselves and that we'd just put the number toward next month.

Anyway, that's one of my many stories but it was the worst one and the scariest one by far. Also, by the way, in case your wondering, as we stood at the bus stop, shaking and trembling, barely able to talk, the last bus of the night came by like 3 minutes later. So, the bottom line is that I survived to tell the story but I never should have even been in that situation considering one minute I'm in bed asleep and the next minute my life is on the line. I guess if I would have died, the Church would have made up something good to cover their asses. I know without a doubt that the "real truth" would have never gotten out and everyone would have probably been left to believe that I was breaking the rules and therefore died.

What they wouldn't have told you was that the rule to be in by 9:30 pm didn't apply in my mission and had been waived by my Mission President. We actually had no curfew as long as we were teaching somebody but I still personally tried to stick to it whenever possible. Then, everyone would have heard the line that I died doing what I loved, serving the Lord, what better way to go. Damn cult!!

Here are a few of my other stories from my mission for those that haven't read them yet. These aren't life threatening, just mind bending and sickening and also one funny one regarding my President:

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/elder-mickelsen-can-see-your-inner.html

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/mormon-church-in-argentina-was-mess_10.html

http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/08/mormon-mission-presidents-gone-wild.html

Mormon Missionary Nate T. Nelson Strikes Again!! What A Funny Guy!! He's just hanging loose in Venezuela!!

I said that I would post this guys apology for having taken the picture where he was making fun of what appears to be a homeless guy. Well, the problem is, he doesn't want to seem to apologize. He sort of did but then followed it up by being a real smart ass and spewing some BS that in my opinion wiped out any intention that he may have had to say he was sorry. Then Today, I saw this picture with the words "YEEHAW" above the pics and then below the picture are the words, "this one's for you gonzoman! =)" Gonzoman is a guy from the Fair Boards that was in opposition to his original post. It's just unbelievable to me!! This guy is a real pompous jerk!! Now, I want to share with you Nate T Nelson's words of wisdom regarding his first picture when confronted on the Fair Boards. You guys can decide the true intent he had by reading his own words.

This is what he had to say at first:

Well hello everyone....this is Nate "the culprit" here. I would like to just publicly apologize to all those offended by the photo I posted on the mission website. It obviously was taken completely opposite of its intent. And now I can see your opposing point of views. What I do NOT appreciate though are those who, without even knowing me or approaching me about the matter, are publicly questioning my honor as a missionary/member. I would like to quote D&C 42:88-89: "And if thy brother or sister offend thee, thou shalt take him or her between him or her and thee alone; and if he or she confess thou shalt be reconciled. And if he or she confess not thou shalt deliver him or her up unto the church, NOT THE MEMBERS, but to the elders. And it shall be done in a meeting, and that not before the world." You may read on if you like. I just want to add that I hold in high honor the people of Venezuela whom I love dearly. They possess some of the most important qualities naturally that us as Americans have to STRIVE to gain such as charity and love. I'd also like to thank those who didn't think of the worst possible intention I might have had...because I actually had the best of intentions. ALSO, the man in the photo just happens to be a good friend of mine that I spoke with quite often in one of my areas and was quite stoked to have his picture taken with me. Once again...all apologies and PEACE!

Now, he was getting about 50/50, people that were all for him, saw no problem with the picture and then those that were pleading with him to take it down on the behalf of what was morally right. Anyway, in this next post, he chose to spread the blame to the administrator for posting it. Later the administrator said that it was computer automated, etc.

Here is what he said:

might I quickly add that this picture had to be approved by the admin of the mission website who then allowed it to be posted...so I feel he is being insulted as well since he approved it to be posted.

Then he said the following:

I personally don't feel I have to explain myself for the picture, because whatever I say will probably just be criticized. Adam, you wrote "'looks like' he was asleep." I mean, either way I'm going to be looked at as having evil intentions when all I was really doing was taking a picture that I thought would be cool to take home to show how my experience in Venezuela was and the things we saw.

His next post:

People make life so complicated sometimes. I apoligized and realize my mistake, so can we just let it be?

Then he said:

I've actually been home from my mission for a year now...lookin to get hitched to a latina. yeehaw!

His next comments were:

you dont!!?? you mean you can't see my horns and little red tail? haha. I'm gonna go make a burrito now. peace my friends.

Now, people just wouldn't let it drop and he was getting more pissed and showing his true colors when he wrote the following:

Sometimes I think some people worry so much about someone else to the point where they forget about their own personal progression and growth. Are you not reconciled YET gonzoman? I mean I've already apologized and done what I can to correct my error...and I feel quite alright. I mean, I had a burrito last night. That was cool. I went longboarding with some friends. Met some cute girlies at church today. Life rocks. Then I come on here to see how the little discussion against me is going, and I see you've written like 4 research papers about chavistas and junk. Are we gonna be ok buddy?

The he had the following response:

Alrighty....let's just keep beating a dead dog here. It's obvious some people here who claim I 'have no heart' are not willing to forgive. I can't do anything about that though. ANOTHER thing....just for the record. I HAVE NO ACCESS TO REMOVE THE PHOTO...so if it's THAT offensive to people, I suggest you not keep looking at it cuz I can't do anything about it. Adam...how does anyone on here know that I'm not poor myself or have my own struggles? Why is it so bad being poor in the first place...I mean, Christ said they are "blessed". So I envy that. One thing my institute teacher taught me this week that I loved was that we determine our own happiness....not our situations. Look at Nephi...he was so very thankful for his blessings and was HAPPY no matter what the situation. For Laman and Lemuel, their complete happiness depended on their situation...they believed they couldn't be happy unless they lived back in Jerusalem with all their precious things. SOOO...Adam, is it not fun being poor because you decided not to make it fun, or because someone else determined that? I'm not wealthy myself....and I'm one happy little dude.

Then a guy named Adam, was really taking him to task for making fun of poor people and he said:

"Adam needs a hug",

Adam then mentioned that he served in the US military and his following comments were:

Adam...thanks for serving our country and preserving our freedom. I appreciate it. Good luck on your mission.

Then he responded to someone else with:

Ahhhem....must I be so specific. I am lookin' for a LATINA to get hitched to... haha. Totally kidding though.. Anyways...got some great pix to look forward to my friends! By the way....they are ALL posted with the best intentions. So let's be optimistic about them, can we?

Anyway, if someone wants to read the whole thread, head on over to fair and check it out. I just don't believe this guy when he says he's sorry and then follows it up with comments like; "SOOO...Adam, is it not fun being poor because you decided not to make it fun, or because someone else determined that? I'm not wealthy myself....and I'm one happy little dude."

It is my opinion that this guy is a jerk!! He was one of the jerk types that I knew on my mission who appears to be pretty arrogant and full of himself. I normally wouldn't attack an individual without knowing him but for me, it's pretty clear from his pictures and comments who he is. Also, if you want to go see his other pictures that he posted, you can see them here. I would also like to point out that if the guy in his first picture is really one of his "good friends", then Nate, since you seem to love to take pictures of your friends so much, produce another picture of you and this man together, this time with him upright and not laying on the ground. If he can produce this picture, I would only then believe you that this man was your "good friend."

After all, your "good friend" was supposedly so "stoked" as you put it, to pose laying on the cement. Sounds like if he is your good friend, you may want to be nicer to your "good friends" in the future. By the way, I wonder if he has been writing and staying in touch with his "good friend." since he's been home for the last year. How's he doing Nate? What's the latest with you your "good friend?" All Nate really had to do was say, "I'm sorry for those that were offended, that was not my intention to offend anybody. I loved the people there, thought it would be funny to take that picture but now I see it wasn't and I'm sorry." That's all he had to say but he had to argue with everyone and basically defend himself and get pissed off for anyone that was "judging" him. A picture does speak a thousand words as they say!!

Anyway, produce the picture Nate and then I'll believe you. It still won't change in my opinion what you were trying to do, even if you did know him, but at least it will restore a little bit of your credibility. That's all I have to say for now about this guy but he certainly is not only a bad example of a Mormon Missionary, but a bad example of a human being. That is my opinion and I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Hey Nate, one more thing; what would Jesus do? After all, you were, in the view of your Mormon Church, acting as a Representative of Jesus Christ himself.

Samuel

Mormon Missionary Takes Disgusting Picture Of Himself, Preaching From The Book Of Mormon, To An Unconscious Man!! What A First Class Jerk!!

Hey guys, I'm teaming up with Captain Jack(our resident expert on South America) on this one. He emailed this link to me that included this picture. We just wanted and felt that everyone should see it. It is horrible but at the same time, not too far from the truth. We wonder who the missionaries are teaching and why the inactivity rate, especially in South America, is at an all time high?!! While this picture further helps us understand what is happening in the mission field and South America, this picture obviously doesn't represent all missionaries and and is only one example of a couple of real jerks.

While it would be extreme to say that Mormon missionaries teach unconscious people, it wouldn't be extreme to say that they teach and take advantage of children and people that really don't understand what they are doing. A lot of people that end up getting baptized are very poor and uneducated and the missionaries look at them as a number. Now, not all missionaries look at them as numbers, but most of these people all end up being numbers anyway. Even when a missionary is trying to do it the right way, he still ends up feeling that pressure of the numbers game and wants to please his leaders, namely the Mormon Mission President. We were supposed to challenge people to baptism in the first discussion when I was on my mission. I never did it!! I thought it was ridiculous.

As hard as I tried to only baptize "converts" when I was on my mission, I look back now and realize that many of those people were indeed or ended up being numbers. I convinced myself that they were converts but come on, lets be honest here, 10 year old kids from a non-member Family are not converts, they are a number. I was in denial. On my mission, no baptisms equaled that you were a sinner or lazy and nobody wanted to be in that category.

Now, back to the subject of this picture; obviously both he and his companion who I assume took the picture, are complete pompous asses. These guys are real first class jerks of the worst kind. There can be no mistake what their intention was, right? Obviously they thought it was funny to make fun of some poor man that was sleeping on the street. He could have been homeless, drunk, or hell, he could be dead, who really knows? But they in their infinite wisdom, found it funny to pretend to be preaching to him from the Book or Mormon.

Now, I don't know who the missionary or person is that posted this picture, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who posted it, it only matters who took the picture and why they did it. If these two guys are still out there on their mission by some chance, they should be sent home today. If this is how little they respect the country, people and culture of Venezuela, then they should be forced to leave. I could be wrong but I'm assuming that the person that posted the picture is now home from his mission and thought it would be funny to post this picture to the mission website. What a loser if that is the case!!

After serving in South America, I really grew to love these humble people that lived in poverty. A lot of them barely had enough money to even buy food for their Families. They would work all day in the fields to make $5. I would never have taken a picture like this!! I can't even fathom thinking that something like this would be funny. I know that Captain Jack feels the same way. He also served in South America, has many friends down there and loves the people there very much. Thanks Captain for sending me this picture and allowing me to share it with everyone. It's just unbelievable to me!!

I know I speak for Captain Jack and for many others out there when I say that this picture makes me sick, angry and sad. It's hard to believe that there are Mormon missionaries out there or any people for that matter, that are so cold and so callous!! This picture is atrocious but we felt that it was necessary to show the world what some Mormon missionaries find as humorous. It disgusts me!!

Also, somebody out there knows this "Elder" and I want nothing more than to expose and embarrass him for taking this picture. It isn't funny "Elder" in any way, shape or form and I hope that You will be embarrassed for having ever taken it and allowing it to get out to the world. You have embarrassed yourself, your family and this poor man. Some may say that it's just as bad for me to show this picture on my blog but I say this; I'm showing this picture on my blog in defense of this poor man and to show the world how he was taken advantage of and ridiculed by two Mormon missionaries. Somebody has to defend a defenseless man!! It is truly ashame what these Elders did. Also, the world needs to see this Elders face and what this Elders attitude was like while on his mission.

Now, if he apologizes, I'm sure we'll hear about it, and I'll post it right here on my blog, but I wouldn't hold my breath. There's a good chance that he would do it again given the chance but I guess we'll wait and see. There is a comment section on that mission website and I encourage everyone to make your comments on there and lets see if this ass responds to us.

Anyway, that's all for now. Thanks again Jack for the picture. By the way, Captain Jack has posted many great things regarding the Church in general and it's growth in South America and I'll be doing a post on just all of that information for everyone to read. The Church in South America is falling apart, piece by piece, person by person. So, have a great night and I'll be back later tonight for my weekly wrap up. Chau!!

***Updated*** Hey, I just wanted to leave everyone a new link that will show you this guys name and comments, not just the picture and you will see that his intentions were indeed to mock and make fun of this man. It appears the Elders name is Nate T. Nelson. If he is indeed the one that posted it and he is the one in that foto...he should be ashamed of himself!! Here is that link, check it out!! On the top, he wrote, "Finding The Chosen" and then below the picture, wrote, "Ok ok, so we got off to a rough start..." What a jerk!!

http://www.mission.net/venezuela/maracaibo/pictures.php?pID=13559

***New Update*** Nate T. Nelson, finally, reluctantly, removed the picture, while still believing that he had done nothing wrong, and not before revealing his true intentions and making an ass of himself over on the Fairboards. The above link, did go directly to his picture over on the mission website but no longer does. I have kept the picture here on my blog to remind everyone of the shameful actions of this missionary who was not truly sorry for what he did.

I did a follow-up post on this clown, with all of his comments from Fair, along with yet another picture and I thought that I should include that link here, so that anyone reading this, could get a better picture of this guys character and read for themselves what he had to say about it. I'm sure that this picture, by this Elder Nate T. Nelson, didn't help the Mormon Church in Venezuela, who just recently, had to pull out all American missionaries.

I hope that he's still proud of himself for mocking and making fun of the poor. This post and picture has been circulated very well on the Internet on many different websites and people can make their own conclusion. I know for a fact that it has been seen by literally hundreds of people in Venezuela including government websites. Good job Nate!! You da man!!
http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/09/mormon-missionary-nate-t-nelson.html

Samuel the Utahnite

Mormons Teach That You Are Better Off "DEAD" Than To Have Any Degree Of Sexual Relations Before Marriage!!

Now, to follow up my disturbing Temple Post from yesterday, I thought I'd share another very disturbing and very evil Church Doctrine. By the way, if you go to the Church museum in Salt Lake City, Utah, you will find a shrine to President Kimball with his book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness" taking center stage. It says something like, "this book has helped so many people around the world", etc. Of course it fails to mention the people that committed suicide after reading it and feeling completely worthless and hopeless.

In my opinion, that book, "The Miracle of Forgiveness", is one of the most evil books ever written, especially within the Mormon Church. I believe very strongly that that one book has done much more damage than it has ever done good. It has destroyed lives and families and continues to do so. It is the standard response from the Bishop to any horrible,sinning, fornicator or masturbator. It is nothing to be proud of and should be taken out of print and removed from display in the Churches Museum. The book is pure evil!!

I'm not sure who the last story came from but I found it somewhere on the Internet several months back and thought it was worth sharing. It is a perfect example of the fear mongering that the LDS Church participates in on a daily basis. This "better off dead" teaching is pure evil and the whole world should know what this damn Mormon cult has been teaching through the years and still is, by recommending such an evil book for people to read after committing some moral sin. It is a tragedy!! How could this so called "Church" teach something so hurtful and so evil. How do the General Authorities wake up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror. It is becoming clearer and clearer to me that these men must not have any conscience whatsoever and are evil men destroying lives on a daily basis.

By the way, they have never rescinded these comments, never apologized for them and therefore stand by them to this day. Any doubt that this is an evil cult?

Here's what church leaders have said about death being better than experiencing sex before marriage:

"You will recall Alma’s teaching his son Corianton that unchastity is the most serious offense there is in the sight of God, except for murder or denying the Holy Ghost. (See Alma 39:5.) President Clark, in a conference address in October 1938, said: 'Chastity is fundamental to our life and to our civilization. If the race becomes unchaste, it will perish. Immorality has been basic to the destruction of mighty nations of the past; it will bring to dust the mighty nations of the present. You young people, may I directly entreat you to be chaste. Please believe me when I say that chastity is worth more than life itself. This is the doctrine my parents taught me; it is truth. It is better to die chaste than to live unchaste. The salvation of your very souls is concerned in this.' Now, my dear friends, we know there is nothing new in what we have said. These things are time-tested; they are true. To this we testify."
-LDS First Presidency Message "We Believe in Being Chaste," Ensign, Sept. 1981, 3

"Loss of virtue is too great a price to pay even for the preservation of ones life - better dead clean, than alive unclean. Many is faithful the Latter-day Saint parent who has sent a son or a daughter on a mission or otherwise out into the world with the direction: 'I would rather have you come back in a pine box with your virtue than return alive without it.'"
Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine (all editions), page 124.

President David O. McKay is quoted in Kimball's book as follows:
" . . . Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives. Do not tamper with sin . . . do not permit yourselves to be led into temptation."

Heber J. Grant is also quoted in Kimball's book:
"...There is no true Latter-day Saint who would not rather bury a son or daughter than to have him or her lose his or her chastity -- realizing that chastity is of more value than anything else in all the world."

Later in the same book, President Kimball again addresses the matter of Chastity with the elsewhere mentioned paragraph:

"Also far-reaching is the effect of loss of chastity. Once given OR TAKEN OR STOLEN it can NEVER BE REGAINED. Even in forced contact such as rape or incest, the injured one is greatly outraged. IF SHE HAS NOT COOPERATED and contributed to the foul deed, she is of course in a MORE FAVORABLE position. There is no condemnation where there is NO Voluntary participation. It is BETTER TO DIE in defending one's virtue than to live having lost it without a struggle." (emphasis mine)

This "better dead than.." teaching has been around a long time in Mormon Seminary and Institute.

I feel sorry for the ignorant Mormons who believe it.

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It was during the plane crash simulation. That long funky room with the accordion doors between the chapel and the gym represented the plane. The bishop announced the "plane" just crashed and made us think really hard about where we would end up that night if it were true. Then they sent the youth through the telestial kingdom, (the junior Sunday school room), the terrestrial kingdom, (the relief society/multipurpose room), and finally, voilà!, the celestial kingdom (the chapel).

We were told the telestial kingdom was as far as we could progress if we had had sex, and that our parents would rather have us DEAD than for us to lose our chastity. Girls were told to fight rapists to their DEATHS rather than lose their virginity.

In the terrestrial kingdom, we were told which lesser sins were allowed that would land us there.

In the celestial kingdom, our parents and families were secretly waiting for us for a surprise testimony meeting. That was how it would be--joining our loved ones in the CK if we didn't sin. Many tears were shed and wayward girls and boys were set straight and narrow again.

I remember being scared to death because I was going to end up in the telestial kingdom for masturbating.

Samuel the Utahnite