Here is the interview with Tucker Carlson on MSNBC:
Here is the video presentation that he gave at UVSC February 1, 2006:
Here is another link, which is a debate between both sides of this issue. It requires Real Media Player to watch.
EXCLUSIVE...9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths"
Here is one great site, that debunks the conspiracy theorists. This is just one of many and you can all Google the rest if interested, as they aren't hard to find.
There are many other links, that support the conspiracy theorists some of which Brad included in his last comment, in the last post, so here they are below, for those that have the time and care to spend hours looking at all sides of this issue. I have no problem sharing both sides, and letting everyone come to their own opinion. Here is a link to the main site that both supports and is supported by Steven Jones and his theories.
By the way, Steven Jones is a co-chair of this 911 committee, so he is deeply involved and supports everything they say, even that "a missile, not a plane, hit the pentagon." Amazing, isn't it, that none of the "supposed" people that were "supposedly" on the plane, that "supposedly" hit the pentagon, haven't come forward. I guess they just hid or destroyed the plane and then killed them or have them in secret prisons, right? Come on man!!
Here are some additional links, as provided by Brad:
Video 1
Video 2
Video 3
I know this is pretty old news for most of you out there, but I never got a chance to write a post on it, like I wanted to, back when I first discovered it last year. It recently came to the surface again, when Steven Jones was put on paid leave by the Mormon Hierarchy. Steven Jones honestly believes that President Bush and those working for him, planted the bombs in the twin towers and building 7 and that their ensuing collapse, had absolutely nothing to do with the airliners impact, explosions and the intense heat that resulted.
Like I mentioned in the title, he claims the hijacking of the airlines was just a "diversionary tactic", and nothing more. Bush wanted everyone to "think" that it was the hijacked airliners that caused the collapse, when in reality, the entire plan was hatched from the oval office, all the way to the caves in Afghanistan.
I guess he assumes that Bush called up Bin Laden on his satellite phone(he has him on speed dial) and asked him if he would do a big favor for him and his administration and hijack some planes and crash them into the towers and then the White House and Pentagon, just to really make it look good and cover his ass for what he was trying to pull off with the Twin Towers.
Of course flight 93 never made it to the White House, which I'm sure really upset Bush, right? Give me a damn break!! Then again, crashing in the field of Pennsylvania was probably planned too, right? Why not? I mean if Bush was diabolical enough to hatch this entire plan, to kill thousands of innocent people, for more defense spending and political gain, why not plan the crash in Pennsylvania too?
A poster named Brad just left a couple of comments on my last post, regarding all of this and I just thought that I'd move them over here, so that the topic could be properly discussed. I wanted to show this video of his interview with Tucker and give links to what this man has written and said, so that you guys can learn about it and then express your own opinion, if you want to. I personally think it's insane and that Steven Jones is looney.
To think that Bush and his "guys", snuck into the towers, in the dark of the night, after corroborating everything with Al Qaeda and Bin Laden and planted bombs up and down the towers and then he called up Bin Laden to plan the hijackings; is out of this world insane. I've heard of conspiracy theories, but personally, I think the "grassy knoll" or "Bigfoot"(Brigham Young says he's Cain), "Joseph Smith being threatened by a homicidal angel of God, with a flaming sword, if he didn't become a pedophile" or "alien abductions", has 1000% more validity than this does.
As I mentioned, Steven Jones was put on paid leave a while back, by Gordon B. Hinckley, the so called Mormon Prophet, shortly after meeting with President Bush.(Notice how nice that room is?) I also don't think that it happened right after Bush met with Hinckley, because the theory is true, rather that these nutjobs like Steven Jones, saying that Bush planned and carried out the whole thing, look very anti-American and and make Hinckley Incorporated look very bad.
The freedoms and constitutional rights of this country allow them to have any opinion they want and even to express it publicly. However, Hinckley Inc. doesn't want them working for them, even if they agreed privately that what he was saying was true. As everything else, it's all about the image and protecting that image, so that they can continue to suck more people into their web of lies and deception, while sucking them dry financially.
Does anyone really think that the Mormon Hierarchy want to be seen as supporters of a conspiracy theorist like Steven Jones, who believes the President of the United States, planned out and then brutally murdered thousands of innocent people?
It also doesn't surprise me that Steven Jones would believe this, since he probably also believes in homicidal angels with flaming swords, that forced Joseph Smith to be a pedophile behind his wives back, or else be killed. Anyone that can believe this BS, can believe anything and it shouldn't surprise any of us that he would believe many other wacky things. Which reminds me of what Jeff Lindsay from Mormanity had to say about Steven Jones:
"It is vital that the truth about this event be known. Dr. Jones, thank you for having the courage to put truth above your career in speaking out on this vital topic." (Reminds me of some other great role models in the Book of Mormon who dared to stand up against powerful and corrupt forces.)
Nothing like a Mormon Apologist to talk about "Dr. Jones courage to put truth above his career" and then compare him to completely fictional "great role models in the Book of Mormon." I'm guessing that Jeff Lindsay is confirming that he is also drinking the Kool-aid and believes everything "Dr. Jones" is saying and that he also believes the US Government is a "powerful and corrupt force."
Thank you Jeff Lindsay, for telling us all how you really feel!! I think this gives us a much better insight into who Jeff Lindsay is and why he is a Mormon Apologist.
I know that there are people that hate this country, call us the "most corrupt country in the world", etc, but hey, there are other places to live if you hate it here so much and nobody is forcing you to stay. I'm sure that Hugo Chavez of Venezuela would love to have you guys and you'd have a lot in common.
I also know that the Mormon Hierarchy wants to kiss the governments ass, so that they don't ever lose their tax exempt status, even though their so called church is really a corporation and that ain't no conspiracy theory; that's fact!! Steven Jones, was making Jesus' "one and only true church" look very bad and radical and the Church is trying to be a mainstream, patriotic, Christian church.
The bottom line is that Steven Jones has the freedom to say or spew whatever conspiracy theory he wants and people have the right to say whatever they want in response. As we've seen in the past, BYU will get rid of anybody that says anything against them or what they believe, whether it's for expressing 911 conspiracy theories(Steven Jones), that their racist views and history are wrong(Darron T. Smith), or that they should treat homosexuals better(Jeffrey Nielsen) . At least Darron Smith and Jeffrey Nielsen were dealing with real issues and not some conspiracy theory.
It's amazing that the Mormon Hierarchy waited this long to investigate this clown. Hell, maybe the Prophet and First Presidency think he's right, but had to cut their loses when he became more vocal and started to name names? You would think that they could just ask God or Jesus what happened and they'd be enlightened immediately in the Holy of Holies!!
To me, this has nothing to do with politics, as I wouldn't believe that any President, Democratic, Republican, Independent or any other party, in the history of the US, or in the future, would ever plan such a horrific thing, just for an excuse to go to war or for political gain.
I also don't think that anyone could get away with it, without somebody speaking out. Everybody has a price and if they had hard evidence, they'd be the most famous person on the earth and very rich. Like 123 said, there were plenty of other reasons to go to war if they wanted to, without carefully plotting the deaths of 3,000 Americans and those from other countries.
If something like this was planned, as the conspiracy theorists say it definitely was; there would be too many people involved to keep it a secret. I'm just not even close to buying this theory and I think it's crazy. By the way Brad, I have watched his presentations and read much of what is written, listened to those on both sides and I think this theory is complete bullshit and absolutely ridiculous.
Of course, as always, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If this theory is true, we are in a heap of trouble and maybe Bush will plan an attack on Salt Lake next, right? What these conspiracy theorists are really saying, is that we need our military to protect us from our leaders, because they are the ones planning terrorist attacks, not the terrorists.
Why stop here right? I'm sure if we look at every terrorist attack around the world, in the last 5 years, hell maybe 10-20 years, we will find suspicious evidence that every one of them was planned by the US Government and US Presidents, right?
In other words, the only terrorism that exists is from the US, isn't that what they're getting at? Yeah, there are many that believe that and spew that BS, that the US Government officials are the "real terrorists." It kind of sounds to me like some other groups and countries that believe that and they are the true enemy, and the real terrorists, not the US Government.
The head lunatic in Iran is completely nuts and actually thinks he has some dude sitting on his shoulder telling him to start Armageddon and that it's his duty and he isn't kidding. So, again, if you really believe that crap being spewed by people like Steven Jones; that the US Government is being run and led by terrorists and that Al Qaeda is just a front for the the US Government, in order to use hijacked planes, slamming into buildings, as just a "diversionary tactic"; I'm sure those other countries would love to have you.
Well take care everybody and I look forward to your opinions on this issue. I know that there are many out there that say, "let's wait and see", "maybe he's right, that Bush did organize and plan the whole thing", but I say no way, it's ridiculous and Steven Jones is out of his mind and so is anyone else that believes it.
Samuel the Utahnite
11 comments:
Hi,
Although I don't think that Bush planned 9/11, I think that he abused 9/11 to make America less democratic and removing many human rights.
Where are human rights at Guantanamo, where were human rights in Abu Ghraib, where are human rights in the secret prisons of the CIA???
Millions of dollars are shifted into the defence department, buying weapons and stuff, removing it from many other important areas.
Conspiracy theories just mix the chicken with the egg. Even if Bush was not the creator (chicken) of 9/11, he abused the resulting fear for his purposes to gain more power by removing democratic rights and manipulating the scared population.
By the way, where is John Dehlin's "mormon stories" blog gone?
Did he get some nice letter from his Mormon employer?
Greets,
Sven.
I would have to agree with 123 that there isn't enough evidence yet to point fingers at the U.S. gov't. and Jones and others have probably overstepped their bounds in this regard until they have more evidence.
The debunking websites (like this one, for example) make some pretty good counter claims, but they start to sound like Mormon appologetic sites to me. They don't seem to address all the issues at hand. So, a lot of questions remain for me. For example, why did tower 7 fall (in the free-falling manner it did) when no plane hit it? They claim by falling debree and more fires, but keep in mind these are the only three buildings in history that have fallen due to fire (let alone fall the way they did).
I guess my point here is that it's foolish to assume that Jones and others because they're Mormon are delusional, without examining the claims as carefully as possible. Mormons aren't idiots (even though when it comes to matters of faith, thier minds are clouded with fantasy), so why dismiss valid claims (unrelated to their religious fantasies) only because of who they are? Besides, Mormons make up only part of the conpiracy theorists in this case.
Bottom line: I myself have more reading and research to do before I'm convinced of anything either way...but the theorists claims are very compelling.
So long for now
~Brad
They couldn't keep a BJ in the oval office a secret; do you really think they could pull this off? It's ridiculous! Quit looking for anomalies’. Look at the whole picture! It doesn’t even make sense. Why would you shift the blame from the real murderers to blame your own country?
This whack job should have been fired. It is wreckless, and stupid. Even if I hate BYU, and love bad press for the Church.
Brad(the first one),
I just wanted to thank you for bringing this here, because it is a post that I've needed to write for way too long and you provided the motivation for me to do it. I may think it's a crazy theory, you may think it has some validity, others may be 100% sure that it's true, etc.
I think that we've provided enough information from both sides, for people to read, watch, listen and decide for themselves what they think the truth is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions of course and I'm just interested to see what everyone thinks or if anyone really even cares. From the lack of response so far, I think maybe it's the latter.
==============
For Brad Anderson:
I'm with you man. Putting scientific theories aside, it just makes no common or logical sense to me at all. Like you said, they couldn't cover-up a BJ, so how the hell could they cover-up a massive plot, probably involving at least hundreds, but more likely thousands of people, to murder innocent men, women and children and bring down the towers. To me, this is twilight Zone/Kolob material.
We know that it was Bin Laden and we now have video of the terrorists with Bin Laden, in training, before the hijackings. So, the only answer, for the conspiracy theorists, is that Bush and Bin Laden are best buddies and working together to terrorize the world and kill thousands of innocent men, women and children.(Sounds like the Angry, pissed off God of the Old Testament, doesn't it?)
I guess we should also believe that Elvis is alive, the moon is made of cheese, Joseph Smith was a true Prophet and Bigfoot is really Cain, right? I have no sympathy for the guy at all, and the fact that he will probably be fired, after the investigation is done. Maybe after he's officially FIRED from Jesus' University, he can go investigate all of the embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing, Oklahoma City, etc and try to pin all of those on the US Government as well. Where does it end?!!
Now, I think Steven Jones should feel grateful that he is living in the United States of America, a place that allows such insane hyperbole, because many countries would have strung him up in the town square for suggesting the President and his cabinet, were behind the brutal murders of innocents. Sadly in those countries, it would probably be the truth.
I know that the US has plenty of problems, makes plenty of mistakes and isn't perfect by any means, but come on folks, intentionally planning, plotting and carrying out terrorism, while colluding with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda to make it all happen; is too far out of reality for me to even consider as something remotely true or plausible. I would say that it's like being way out, with nothing from no where!!
Well, I've gotta run, A UFO just dropped by to beam me up to Kolob....take care everyone and carrrryyyy ooooon.............oh, the lights are so bright and beautiful and why are they wearing holy garments and CTR rings....oh shit!! LOL!!
Samuel
Well, about WTC7, I was under the impression that that was in fact demolished by the NYC Fire Department. Larry Silverstein said that in a PBS interview, anyway. I don't think he would have made something like that up.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7750532340306101329
I think we should all be reminded that the 9/11 Commission did not by any means release a complete report. The report itself says that there are unresolved questions. The controlled demolition theory is just about 100% as far as WTC7 is concerned, from my point of view (look at the Silverstein interview!!), but as for the Twin Towers, that remains an uncertainty. It is certainly possible that that there were bombs in the building as well, but again, where is the incentive for the U.S. government to be behind it? There was absolutely no motive. Nothing to gain, and a helluva lot to lose!
The government still had solid justification for launching a War on Terror, like I said, as well as invading a whole list of nations hostile to the interests of the United States. Why go through the bother of staging a terror attack to rally support? If nothing else, the government could just have chosen to "take a day off" and let a lot worse happen whenever they felt inclined. Or they could have leaked a few reports here and there about the hostile intentions of some rogue state that had a grudge against the U.S. and scared the hell out of us.
I think instead of worrying about every detail from 9/11, we should be worrying about making sure that things like that don't happen again...by not voting for the morons who set the precdent of inaction that made the terrorists think that they could get away with attacking Americans!! As President Bush said last Wednesday in a visit to my state, "You vote for Republicans, for the safety of the United States of America!"
May the trash-talking commence. :-)
Oh, and if we want to make the discussion really interesting, I'd love to share my "Scenario B" theories. You know, supposing the government WAS behind it all, because maybe they were acting in our better interests...
Now the criticisms should REALLY begin to flood in. :-P
What is the URL for John Dehlin's website?
The official "mormon stories" site looks to be down for good, but here's a link concerning the reasons why he shut it down as well as one with all it's content.
http://mormonstories.org/faq.html
http://www.mormonstories.org/archive.html
Actually, these guys sound fairly credible:
http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/10/loose-change-vs-popular-mechanics.html
Maybe there is more to Sept. 11 than what is generally known.
Hey Jumpboot, thanks for helping out Dr. Shades, I appreciate it, as I'm sure he does. I was away for the weekend and not able to do much or respond to comments, so thanks for stepping in.
But like Jumpboot said, John Dehlin is done, retired for now and claims the church had nothing to do with it, which is a good thing. I know that he had to be getting pressure from somewhere, at some point, from someone in the church, after doing some of the interviews he did, that put the church in a very bad light. (Update-He may be returning if he can get the financial support necessary.)
It just seems inconceivable to me that nobody in the church Hierarchy would notice that he interviewed Buckley Jepson(who they want to ex for being homosexual and marrying his partner), Grant Palmer(who they disfellowshipped for writing a book they sold in Deseret book and still sell at BYU) and Daron Smith(very upset with the racism in the church and their refusal to apologize for it. Oh yeah, and he was fired from BYU.) In any case, I wish him well.
Anyway, it's good to see you over here Dr. Shades, thanks!! What's going on with Mormon Discussions? I thought you guys were getting donations or sponsors each month now to help keep things going? It has been down a while now and I hope you can get it back up and running soon, as I know it's a place that a lot of people go to vent, etc. There aren't too many uncensored places for ex-Mormon people to go, that's for sure.
I just wanted to say that the only reason I stopped posting over there was time. I was neglecting Mormon Truth readers and listeners and posting over there, when I should have been over here, using what little time I had during the spring and summer months, to write and record for my readers and listeners. I still have a bunch of stuff that I wrote over there, that I need to bring over here to Mormon Truth.
It just seemed like I was "preaching to the choir" at times over there and not really accomplishing much or helping many people and that is my main goal, to help others and teach them about the true history of Mormonism. I know over here, I'm helping a lot of people and I get about 6,000-10,000 hits a month and hundreds of Emails.
I had just noticed a while back that your wrote a post saying that it was a surprise that I had left along with some other people and that I had not posted anymore, etc and I just wanted to explain why.
Also, I found it highly amusing that people were looking for me, wondering were I was, etc, when I'm clearly not hard to find. I didn't respond to them, because I figured that if they really wanted to find me, they could come on over to Mormon Truth or simply Email me, which they never did.
It's not like I'm freaking in hiding and haven't broadcast to the world my websites, my Email, etc. All one has to do is Google "Mormon Truth", or "Samuel the Utahnite" or "Gordon B Hinckley lies", "Gordon B Hinckley fraud", "Richard Hinckley(LOL), etc, etc. Bottom line is that if someone really wants to find me, it would take about 1 nano second.
Anyway, I just want to thank you again publicly Dr. Shades for all of your help when I first discovered the truth. I will always be indebted to both you and Hyrum and Mike Norton(The Church Is Not True), for helping me to deal with my pain, and to hear that others felt what I felt and finally, to have a place to go and freely express myself without the ridiculous control and censoring of RFM, The Mormon Curtain and other places.
So, thanks again for helping me know that I had company and wasn’t all alone, in one of the darkest and most difficult times in my life. That show you did with Mike and Hyrum, allowed me to be able to laugh again, no matter how shitty I felt my life was.
Talk to all you soon,
Samuel
Samuel, you seem to be a fair minded guy, but the (first) Brad has it right that you seem not to be able to approach this with an open mind. Almost every person with education has a high correlation with doubting the official story more, the more that they analyze the facts.; Almost every person, regardless of education, that doesn't give an honest effort too look at both sides, skims the researched material; has a high correlation with prematurely dismissing distinguished and well respected voices like Steven Jones.
If you read this far, my incentive for this response was the irony inherent in a mistake in your post here: you point people to a 911truth "debunking" site article (written by Gerard Homgren), ostensibly to get both sides. However the piece is actually a tounge-in-cheek jape; "debunking" the official myth, written as a joke in the holier-than-thou condesending tone used by those who haven't woken up yet.; You may recognize this tone from your writing on the subject.
Best Wishes,
ubik
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