Are Die-hard Christian Zealots Or Apologists Worse Than Their Counterparts In Mormonism? Hell Yeah They Are!!

MP3 File

***The above Audio clip, is of Eric Hoffman, from "One Living Truth", on his "living truth podcast", using very strong words, to condemn ALL MORMONS, that do not follow him in his Christian beliefs and ideas. I encourage everyone to listen, and hear his offensive words for themselves, in order to understand why I had to address this issue of "blanket condemnation."

I don't care who it is, Eric or some other right-wing, fanatical Christian/SDA/JW/Mormon, or any other religion, condemning all good Mormon people, or anybody else, even an Atheist..gasp, just because they don't follow you and what you believe; it is offensive and wrong!! These people must be stood up to, just like the Mormon Hierarchy and that is what I have done in this instance.***

All I can say guys is that I had been missing something that was right in front of me, right under my nose, but now I can see the light perfectly. Die-hard Christians or Christian activists, are even worse than Mormons with their blanket condemnations toward all those that don't believe exactly as they do. At least most Mormons don't come right out and actually condemn everyone, even though we know that is what they truly believe.

These die-hard Christians though, just say it like it is, in their eyes of course, without caring how hurtful their words are. I mean let's be honest, the Mormon Church also condemns all other religions and has called them abominations, corrupt and false, since the First Vision supposedly occurred and Jesus said this to Joseph Smith, but they just have a nicer presentation and way of saying it.(I should know, I did it for 2 years on my mission.) They just claim that they have the only truth and then you can surmise on your own, what that actually means.(That your Church is an abomination, with corrupt preachers and false doctrines.)

The past few weeks, as I've become increasingly disturbed by the hateful rhetoric, coming from Christian activists, I decided to re-visit some of Eric Hoffman's podcasts, where I seemed to remember him using blanket condemnation for all Mormons and everybody for that matter, that didn't come to his Jesus, or beliefs specifically. Eric and I have been friends, done podcasts together, talked and chatted for hours and hours, etc, so it really wasn't a task that I was looking forward to, but one that had to be done, in my further search for truth, common decency and justice.

I didn't start my blogs or podcast as some type of popularity contest or to only do what doesn't offend anybody, or to make everyone love me, rather a place to seek out and present the truth, with facts to back it up, which I have done for over a year now and will continue to do. I have just as many people or more that love what I do, as compared to people that hate me, hate my passion, hate what I do, hate what I write, hate my podcasts, my style and everything about me, while insulting me with many colorful, offensive terms, but do I care? No, I don't!!

This blog, along with my others blogs and podcasts are for truth and were first created as a place for ME, to express MYSELF and feelings freely and openly, without censorship and secondly, to help other people to know the truth and that someone is out here, that understands their pain. In other words, I'm helping myself and others at the same time and if you don't like it, don't read it and don't listen to me and go live your life. This blog is not for people that have no passion or desire to know the truth.

I don't care who you are, whether you are the Mormon Hierarchy or my former friend Eric Hoffman, you start lying about me publicly, and condemning innocent people that I love and want to help and are now claiming that you have "the only truth on the planet", I 'm gonna call your ass out, every single time. So again, is it a popular thing to do? No!! Would it be easier to say nothing? YES!! Do I care that many Christians, especially Eric Hoffman supporters and followers now hate me and condemn me for speaking the truth? Nope, not one bit and I'd do it all over again, especially knowing what I now know.

Speaking the truth, most times, is not an easy or popular thing to do and is hard for those to handle, that are being exposed, especially when they didn't think that anyone would have the courage to do so and stand up to them. I get my strength from all of you supporters out there and I thank you guys for that support and strength. I just do what I do, because it needs to be done and I believe so strongly in truth and justice, especially after 30 + years of being stuck in a cult.

Now, Eric, who has never been Mormon in his life, claims to love the Mormon people and care a great deal about them, so much so, that he dedicates a lot of time in telling them how wrong and evil their Church is, through his blogs, podcasts and now his new website and podcast. So what is his motive, what is his agenda, if he has one? He of course claims that he has no agenda and does everything for the love that he has for the Mormon people and out of his heart.

My agenda, is to simply preach the truth about Mormonism and this huge fraud/cult to all that want to listen and I don't force it upon anybody, as they are free to come and go from my sites, my podcasts, etc. Eric on the other hand, uses different tactics, which I would never use, while at the same time, claiming that he has no agenda whatsoever, which I consider to be laughable, ridiculous and an outright lie. Talk about cognitive dissonance at a grand scale!! If somebody even has a pea sized brain, they can clearly and easily see why he is doing what he is doing and what he hopes the end result will be; conversion to his "one and only truth."

Eric and many of the Christian activists, like to go handout their pamphlets all over the place, like for example: at temples, as good Mormons come out to leave, the Manti Pageant(where Eric went a few weeks ago), temple open houses(Eric already can't wait for the Draper temple open house, as stated in his podcast), General Conference(but respectfully Eric says), and any other places, where they can harass and bother the good Mormon people, that are just trying to live their life and be happy and worship the God that they believe in.

Hey Eric, if they want to know what you've got to say, let them find you on their own, instead of having some pamphlet stuck in their face, right after they came out of what they consider to be a very holy, spiritual and sacred place. Place classified ads in the newspaper or run TV ads, just leave them alone, in their places of worship. You are offending them and embarrassing yourself, all in your quest to convert them to your Christianity.

Personally, I think these tactics are extremely offensive and devoid of any value and only make Christians and Christianity as a whole, look very very bad. What effectiveness would or do they have? I know how I felt about these people when I used to wait in line for General Conference; I used to believe that they were from the Devil, evil, inspired by Satan, etc, because that is what I had been taught in the Mormon Church.

I wouldn't even look at them, talk to them or allow them to talk to me, at all. These Christian activists think that these kinds of public displays, are going to bear fruit and bring people to their Church or Christianity? Get a clue guys, you are wasting your time!! Eric claims that I'm wasting my time, while he condemns anyone that doesn't follow him. Who's wasting time?

So, as I mentioned, in my quest for greater understanding, a few weeks ago, I went back and listened to some of Eric's podcasts and at the end of podcast 3, I found what I was looking for(the audio above), unfortunately, as I really wished that I hadn't. So, I wrote down the quote and shared it with Eric, over on his blog and asked him if he still stood by the quote and sadly, he does, admitting that even his father was in danger. I'm now going to share the exact quotes, word for word(and you can listen to them for yourself with the above audio player) and then the post that I wrote Eric and what his response was.

Interestingly, not one person, not one of his avid Christian supporters, weighed in with a defense of Eric, or his condemning words, as he was on his own for this one. I find that to be very interesting and it tells me that most of the Christians that support Eric, and what he does, do not stand by or support his highly offensive comments, which specifically condemn all Mormons with a great big blanket, unless they come to his specific Jesus.

If they do support him, most would be embarrassed to admit it publicly, because the comments are so offensive and just morally wrong in every way. Now, he does have a few supporters, including himself and Joe McCormick, his local preacher/cult leader and right hand man, but outside of that, not too many people are getting in line to support his blanket condemnations.

If they are supporting him, I certainly haven't seen it anywhere. Many say to stop picking on Eric, leave him alone, etc, but not one of those people, have actually defended his comments and outright condemnations. Instead, they just ignore them and pretend as if he didn't say them by not addressing them at all or using the famous Cognitive Dissonance, that is used by so many Mormons, to overcome their screwed up teachings and history.

The reason that I posted a comment on his blog, asking for clarification, was to give him every chance to change his awful, offensive comments, before I wrote this post. Since we've been friends, I wanted to be fair and give him a chance to say, "I misspoke, I got carried away, I'm sorry, etc," which sadly didn't happen. If anything, he just stood by them even stronger and confirmed that he meant every word of what he said and that it is truly what he believes, very sadly I might add.

So, after giving him a chance to recover and strike those words from the record, only to find out that he truly believes what he said, it has forced me to write this post, in the interest of all that is decent, to expose Eric, for once and for all, for his condemning ways, motives and agenda. Oh yeah, but just remember how much he loves the Mormon people and how big his heart is for them. In fact, he loves them so much, that he is willing to condemn them if that is what it takes. Kind of sounds like Brigham Young and Blood Atonement, and the quotes that Eric recently and ironically shared on a podcast, doesn't it?

Brigham Young said:

The way to love your neighbors is to kill them:

“THIS IS LOVING OUR NEIGHBOR AS OURSELVES; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is NECESSARY TO SPILL HIS BLOOD on the earth in order that he may be saved, SPILL IT. Any of you who understand the principles of eternity, if you have sinned a sin REQUIRING THE SHEDDING OF BLOOD, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood SHOULD BE SPILLED, that you might gain that salvation you desire. THAT IS THE WAY TO LOVE MANKIND.” (Sermon by Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, Feb. 8, 1857, printed in the Deseret News, Feb. 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pp. 219-220) and:

“All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be GLAD to have HIS BLOOD SHED. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you LOVE your brothers or sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the SHEDDING OF THEIR BLOOD? WILL YOU LOVE THAT MAN OR WOMAN WELL ENOUGH TO SHED THEIR BLOOD?... “I COULD REFER YOU TO PLENTY OF INSTANCES WHERE MEN HAVE BEEN RIGHTEOUSLY SLAIN, IN ORDER TO ATONE FOR THEIR SINS....(Sermon by Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, Feb. 8, 1857, printed in the Deseret News, Feb. 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pp. 219-220)

Now Eric obviously isn't promoting blood atonement, in any way shape or form for anybody of course, thank God, but is suggesting a spiritual death or "non-existence", absolutely awaits anyone that doesn't accept his view of God/Jesus and Christianity, thus the comparison is effective for the point at hand. If you lose your soul forever and are banned from heaven forever, as Eric says, where will you go, what will happen to you? I'm guessing that means either HELL or ceasing to exist, doesn't it? What other options are there?

Anyway, here are the comments by Eric, from "The Living Truth Podcast", word for word and then my question for him and his exact response:

"As long as you believe Joseph Smith and believe his lies, you will lose your soul forever."

And:

"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........

====================

My comment on Eric's "living Truth Podcast blog:"

Hey Eric,

I just had a question for you and some other comments; do you stand by your statements at the end of podcast #3?

As a reminder, here were your quotes and exact words in question:

"As long as you believe Joseph Smith and believe his lies, you will lose your soul forever." And:

"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........ I haven't seen or heard any public statement from you, regarding these quotes that I had mentioned in my comment section and I just thought this would be a good place and time for you to respond.

I know that we've been friends Eric, but I can't stand by and let you condemn all Mormons with a blanket and for that matter, anyone else that doesn't believe as you do, while claiming how much you care about them and how much you want to help them.

To me, it seems very hypocritical and insincere and like a one way street; either my way or no soul or heaven for you, for all eternity? Isn't that what Mormons teach, which you condemn of course?

I found these comments from you to be very disturbing and I just thought that everyone might want to know how you really feel. Did you mean it, did you misspeak, did you get carried away, do you regret it and finally, would you like to retract them?

You claim to be all about helping Mormons, and that you are so concerned about them, while condemning them at the same time? What's up Eric? This condemnation doesn't flow with a lot of what you say, about wanting to help them so much and not having any agenda.

I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt Eric, by asking for a clarification or retraction.

Everybody, at some time or other, says things they don't mean or gets carried away in the moment and hopefully this was the case with you.

Also, you do realize that your statement, directly condemns me, right? If you meant what you said, I guess I appreciate you being friends with someone, that you actually condemn.

I know that you weren't always a Christian Eric, at least the way you are now and maybe you need to reflect back on those times, in order to try to connect with those of us that don't believe what you believe.

If you hadn't converted and been "born again", would you have lost your soul forever? Where you a horrible, vile person, destined to never taste of heaven? Then one day, you believe in Jesus and it was all cured?

What if you had died before you figured it out and found this only true path? Would you have been doomed for all Eternity and "lost your soul forever?" Good thing that didn't happen, isn't it? So much for those that didn't figure it out before they died, right?

What about your Dad, that you've talked about in your podcasts. He's a Mormon, goes to the temple, pays tithing, etc.

If he never leaves the Mormon Church, no matter what his reasoning is and never comes to your side, is he gonna "lose his soul forever?" Do you know anybody else that doesn't believe what you do? Do they know that you condemn them and that they are on the verge of "losing their soul forever?"

So, great people that don't believe in your Jesus, are screwed? I don't find this to be very loving, comforting, compassionate or understanding Eric. Do you?

I can honestly say, that I feel there is a huge, massive disconnect between us, if this is truly what you believe and I can't remain quiet. I did not realize that you felt this way, when we first became friends.

You always say that you want people to correct you if you are wrong and to leave their comments, so this is mine and I look forward to your response, as I'm sure many others do.

Just a hint Eric; if you really want to help Mormons, don't condemn them again, since they are already trying to escape lifelong condemnation, at the hands of their cult hierarchy and leaders.

If your goal, which it clearly is, is to convert them all and everybody else in the world to your brand of Christianity and beliefs(or else lose their souls forever); starting off with blanket condemnation and instilling the fear of your God/Jesus in them, isn't the right tactic or the way to go.

I just thought I'd try to help you out man and try to steer you in a better, kinder, loving direction. I know your gung-ho and want everyone to feel what you feel, but your freedom in Christ, maybe be captivity to someone else and your blanket condemnation, is outright offensive.

If you back off on the condemnation, you may actually help people and get more support from those that you have truly helped, rather than just those that already agree with you and support you 100%.

I just think you are way off base Eric, but now is your chance to correct it, if you didn't truly mean what you said.

Anyway, I leave these comments as a way to try to understand you Eric, what you believe and what your true motives are for why you do what you do.

I also appreciate F2K's honesty, when he says that he is absolutely biased. At least he can admit it...thanks F2K.

I think F2K is strong in his beliefs, but I don't hear him or read on his blog, where he is condemning anyone who doesn't believe as he does. Maybe you do feel that way F2K, but I get the feeling you don't.

You just seem to truly desire to share the happiness that you've found, which I have no issue with whatsoever. Now, if you start to condemn people to "losing their souls forever", as Eric has done, then I'll have an issue with you too.

Who is anyone, to force their beliefs on anybody and start condemning the average person, just trying to get through life the best way they know how. What makes you so right Eric and everyone else, like me, so wrong?

How did you get the market on correctness and who gave you that authority, or did you just create it?

I served a 2 year mission for the Mormon Church and believe me; I know what that's all about,(the judging people, telling them that their path and Church is wrong, corrupt, etc) better than most of you Christians, that were never even Mormons, but act as if you know everything about the Church and what we went through, etc.

Believe me, no matter how much you study and learn, you will never, EVER, know what it was truly like and will never fully understand or comprehend what it was like to be a lifelong missionary, or Mormon, indoctrinated by a cult from birth.

If you think that you understand the emotions, pain and psychology involved, think again Eric and all of you other "never Mormon Christians."

It's real easy for you guys to act like authorities about something that you don't really have a clue about, isn't it?

Didn't you hear Grant Palmer Eric, in the John Dehlin interview, part 4, when he said that his discoveries about the Mormon Church, were more devastating and painful, than losing his beloved wife and having cancer and the chemo that followed? He said that no other single thing was as painful as that was.

Ponder that and think about it, the next time you want to start condemning people to "losing their souls forever."

Best wishes and I look forward to your response Eric.

Samuel

4:02 PM

Kolage said... Samuel, Let me explain something to you. When Adam and Eve believed Satan that they could become gods and be like God if they ate from the Tree of Knowledge...what happened to them? They were kicked out of the garden for eternity. Mormons believe you can become gods...So I stand by what I say. Yes...even my dad is on dangerous ground. Only the Lord God truly knows what is in every man's hearts. But according to scripture....yes a different Jesus and another Gospel...Galatians 1:8.

I have no idea what you believe Samuel. It seems to be rather post modern....but more important than that, I could care less if you think I am preaching false doctrine. I have a heart for the Mormon people...I am not here to convert or save anyone...that's up to God...I just spread the Gospel. As for me...if I had not been born again would I have been saved? Well...I was agnostic...which means "without knowledge." Once I looked into God's word I did not reject it.

If I had rejected...yes my soul too would have been in great jeopardy. This is not "my" religion or "my" side. It is the word of God.....I am tired of typing...call me. Cell is still the same #. I can share with you in more detail all the things you have addressed.

4:50 PM

So that was our exchange as I gave Eric a chance to recant his blanket condemnation of all Mormons, in my comment section and then in his comment section and he didn't do that, rather he said, "So I stand by what I say. Yes...even my dad is on dangerous ground......but more important than that, I could care less if you think I am preaching false doctrine. I have a heart for the Mormon people."

So, your Blanket condemnation of all Mormons stands, sadly, and reveals your true nature and heart, along with lack of compassion, love and tolerance, specifically for the Mormon people, that you are supposedly trying to help. The "heart" that you supposedly have for the Mormons, means nothing, and is a moot point, because you condemn them if they don't follow you and your ideas and beliefs and they are indeed "yours" by the way.

You have found beliefs that you like, for your life, your family and your kids, that make your bosom burn and you latched onto them, became "born again" and made them YOURS and now want to force them upon the whole world, while threatening them with no soul and no heaven. Is that Christlike in your world Eric or anybody else that believes this? So, don't run from your beliefs Eric, by saying, " This is not "my" religion or my" side. It is the word of God." It is your interpretation, that you have accepted, of what you consider to be the "word of God", for YOU, personally.

Come on Eric, it is your belief, due to your personal confirmation and experiences, that what you believe is the "word of God" and that makes you no different than the Mormons, the JW's, SDA's, etc, who feel the same things and confirmations that you claim to feel. Can you seriously not see this and the extreme hypocrisy that is involved with what you and others say, versus what you do and say in your own personal life, including your condemnation of Mormons, who are saying the same thing you are?

My suggestion is, if you are so worried about everyone "Losing their souls forever", that you go after all the religions and all cults, such as SDA's, JW's, Catholics, Moonies, etc. Why single out Mormons, since you haven't been any of those religions (except for Catholic), including Mormon. Don't hold back and tell everyone that "they will lose their soul forever" if they don't follow you. Start your very own ministry, build a following and grow it worldwide and make it your life. You can become the next Chuck Smith, who started you Church in 1965.

The bottom line guys, is that people are entitled to believe what they want, without being condemned by somebody that claims to have "all the truth" or "the only truth." As I mentioned above and in many posts and podcasts, the Mormon Church does indeed claim to be the "one and only true and living Church on the face of the earth" and so does about every other Church out there, including Eric's.

They are all mind-controlling, destructive cults and if anyone wants to look into Eric's Church, you will find the same problems, at it's core, as you do in Mormonism or most other Churches. Joe McCormick, the pastor of Eric's Church is just another cult leader, who I'm sure never discusses the problems of the Church or of the founder of the Church, Chuck Smith, such as predicting more than once, when Christ will return.

With the men that run the Church, which was started in Costa Mesa, CA in 1965, there have been sex scandals, financial scandals and I'll get more into this in a future post, but again, suffice it to say, the Calvary Mountain View Church, in American fork, is just another cult, in a network of some 1,300 cults, in a world full of cults.

I appreciate everyone's support in my efforts in exposing cults(mainly Mormonism), that are destroying lives and families, one by one, every single day. I have much more to write about this "Calvary Mountain View Church" and its network, but that will be in another post. Anyone that is a member of this Church, certainly cannot condemn Mormons, along with everybody else, while calling them DEMONIC, without looking like a huge hypocrite.

For now, those that want to know more about this Calvary Church, please look back in the comment section of the last post I made and you can start with the words of the post from "Scientist" and on down, which also includes the words of Beth, a former member of the Calvary Church. She left a great link to Rick Ross' website on cults, regarding comments from former Calvary members and what their experience was like.

Looking at the above graph, if Eric is right, and we include all Christians, that would mean that at least 4+ billion people are currently at risk for "Losing their soul forever." Now, if we filter out all of the Churches that are listed above under Christian,(basically all of them) that Eric considers to be false, including Mormons, Catholics(over a billion people), etc, we are now getting closer to Eric condemning almost the entire worlds population or 6 billion + people.

Wow, now he sounds just like Mormonism, who with 12,250,000 members worldwide, claim to have the only truth and account for like .0005% of the worlds population, when taking into account the 3,000,000 or so that are actually active. Eric's church isn't even a blip on the radar, compared to Mormonism and doesn't even rank in the top 13 of US Churches.

It's hard to tell exactly how many members there are in Eric's cult, but I'm estimating that his Church is probably like .00000005% or less of the worlds population or some very minuscule percentage. From what I can gather, there are maybe 100,000-200,000 members or close to that. This just goes to show how narrow minded cults brainwash people, as Churches with such small percentages of believers, actually believe, with all their heart, that THEY, have the only truth. Pretty sad, isn't it?

I used to be a part of this nonsense, as you all know, but now I'm free, living in reality, with freedom of thought and expression. To be honest, I now feel bad for Eric Hoffman, because he is stuck in a cult, just like I was and doesn't even know it. Hopefully somehow, he will get the help he needs, wake up and be able to see his cult for what it is and get out sooner than later, for his sake and that of his family. Good luck Eric in your journey to free yourself from a cult; it isn't easy!!!

I thank everyone for their support!!

Samuel the Utahnite

Fanaticism, Blanket Condemnation And A Saint Called Eric Hoffman!! Eric Says, "As long as you believe Joseph Smith...you will lose your soul forever!!

Just to fully quote Eric Hoffman, at the end of his "living truth podcast #3", he said, word for word:

"As long as you believe Joseph Smith and believe his lies, you will lose your soul forever."

And:

"Believing this false doctrine that Satan taught and that Joseph Smith believed and that Brigham Young carried out to all the rest of the Prophets, will keep you out of the Kingdom of Heaven forever. These are dangerous grounds folks; to believe in Mormonism, it really is........

Today I received an Email from a person named Martin, who has had personal correspondence with Eric and his preacher buddy, over on Eric's new website and Martin has now been officially banned, for disagreeing with Eric and his preacher and for using an occasional bad word, which Eric uses all the time in his personal, "Not doing a Christian podcast or blogging" life.

Martin basically called Eric and his gang out and they couldn't and wouldn't respond, couldn't take the heat, so they booted him. So much for Eric saying and basically pleading, "Please Email me, leave a comment, if I have said or taught anything that is wrong or false, please let me know, I want to hear from you...everyone." So he begs for people to call him out or correct him and when they do, like Martin has done, he boots your ass right out of there, after grilling you on your motives, purpose, etc.

In any case, Martin entitled this article he wrote, "Fanaticism and a Saint called Eric Hoffman" and I added a few things to the title of my choosing. I'm giving Martin a forum and place to post his comments, since Eric will not allow him to post them there any longer. Again, Eric's hypocrisy shines bright, as he complains about how awful and judgmental Mormons are, how they excommunicate them, toss them aside, etc, while he is busy booting anyone out of his forums, that just disagrees with him. What a joke!! What a hypocrite!!

Just so everyone knows; anyone that is booted from Eric Hoffman's website, for simply having a different opinion(or for saying damn, hell or shit), that have something they want to say about him or his words and condemnations, are welcome to have me post them here, for all to read. Eric can shut you guys down in his little pathetic Christian world of condemnation and his little website, but he cannot silence you here and let me know if I can be of any help, to make sure that he doesn't silence you and that you are able to get your words out there.

Anyway, here is the unedited, word for word article by Martin:

Fanaticism and hypocrisy:

Mt 23:24-25-"Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."

Mt 15:18- "Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man."

In his time, Jesus met many people who were zealous in their strife for religious purity. However, Jesus did not agree to their zeal. Instead of striving for what is right and just, the Pharisees stressed things which are really unimportant. Instead of caring about purifying their hearts, they just strived for outward cleanliness. Being fanatic about unimportant things, while neglecting what is really important, is called hypocrisy.

I experienced one example of modern day hypocrisy recently, when I started to listen to Eric Hoffman's podcast, "Living truth podcast". I am a Protestant, not an LDS, but I was and am interested in Mormonism, as it can show how a religion develops from its beginnings; we have many good external sources about how the LDS faith evolved from its foundation in 1830, but we only have fragmented and mostly unobjective sources for the beginnings of Christianity.

When I listened to Eric's podcast, I was quite startled. On the one hand, he used many arguments Samuel also used in his podcast, but on the other hand, he always contrasted this with an idealized and white-washed version of Christianity which is scientifically untrue. As I have studied the origin of the Bible and Bible history from a scientific perspective a bit, I was amazed how biased his view on the Bible was.

Indeed, when I studied Mormonism, I recognized that most problems faced in this faith (and which e.g. Samuel complains about in his podcast) are also present in Christianity. Archaeological problems, problems with immorality of church officials, the general involvement of Christianity in wars, torture, human rights violations, etc. In many of these aspects, Christianity is not any better when compared to Mormonism.

However, as I listened to Samuel's podcast, I recognized that the LDS faith really has some aspects which are troubling, especially the psychological manipulation of its members, e.g. when men are brainwashed from childhood on to go on a mission. Samuel's podcast, at least in my point of view, has two main goals:

To point out the psychological manipulations and other injustices the Mormon church performs (he uses words like "cult" etc. to refer to this manipulative abuse of LDS members), thus also helping current members to recognize these topics; the other objective is to work things out for himself, for the experience that one has been betrayed almost one's whole life, by a group which one holds so dear is a great shock, which has to be mentally processed. I think the foul language he sometimes used is just an expression of this anger. In this point, his podcast is also "therapeutic" for himself.

Back to my main topic, the Pharisee Eric Hoffman:

Eric's approach is very different. Instead of pointing out the negative "cult attributes" of the LDS faith or working on his personal life story, Eric's only aim is to convert LDS members to his own notion of Christianity. However, as he does so, he develops the very same negative attributes he attacks in the Mormon church.

Absolute truth claim:

Eric claims to have THE correct interpretation of the Bible. When I presented him the fact that the Bible has numerous different interpretations and that indeed modern science often can show that the Biblical texts are not literally/historically true, but meant symbolically, Eric got extremely nervous and tried to change the topic as fast as possible, accusing me of bad motives, asking me why I was posting on his blog,etc. He did so because he could not answer my questions or refute my claims.

In this aspect, Eric Hoffman does not differ an inch from the absolute truth claim of the LDS church. He seems to believe that he is some kind of Pope. By doing a bit of reading in some conservative Christian commentaries on the Bible, he thinks he knows everything about the historical background necessary for understanding the Bible. The fact that he chooses the commentary and thus influences his own image of the Bible is not recognized by him.

Intolerance:

When Joseph Smith claimed that God told him all other denominations were an abomination in God's sight, Eric thinks this to be a big scandal.
However, Eric is amazingly intolerant towards the LDS faith. The statement that they will "lose their souls forever" is, in my personal opinion, totally unacceptable, in every moral regard.

And this is where the quotes from Jesus step in:

Eric claims that the denomination you belong to and the theological details you believe in, determine whether you get into heaven or hell.

It is not important how you act, because it only depends on Eric's personal image of God, whose grace can save you.

Eric complains that the Mormons believe to be saved by grace "after all they can do". Eric's own personal Evangelical, right-wing God, does not save anyone by grace either.

Instead, this right-wing God, only saves by grace "after they believe in exactly the same doctrine as Eric Hoffman". Thus, Eric as the sole interpreter of the Bible puts himself to be the greatest man on earth, far greater than Jesus, whose words Eric interprets according to his personal opinion.

Mission activities:

One aspect which makes the LDS church suspicious is its aggressive mission activities. Stories like "bogus baptisms" or "Blitz-baptisms" show that many converts are not informed sufficiently, before being baptized. Many converts have not read all the Canonical works before the baptism is scheduled.

Eric starts to imitate this mission behavior in a similar way when talking to LDS people in front of the MTC(Mission Training Center), or other places to prove his point.

While it is totally ridiculous to prove any point by asking a random person on the street (I bet I could do very funny and embarrassing interviews on the Trinity by randomly asking people on the street for explanations...), he doesn't care for relevancy as long as he can make his point. Actually, I found that in many interviews, his opponents where making as good of an argument as he did (or as bad of an argument as he did; that depends on your point of view).

Fanaticism, intolerance against other opinions:

As I made statements which did not agree with his view on the trinitarian right-wing Bible interpretation, Eric got extremely angry, trying to drive me away from his board, first by changing the topic and asking me about my belief, why I post on his blog, etc. I recognized that while on the facade, he claimed to be open for debate ("open forum"), he actually only wants to convert everyone to HIS PERSONAL faith, and does not tolerate any other opinion.

By now, he has banned me from his forum, probably for posting a link to a pornographic website, with some bikini girls on it. You might guess which porno-site I mean... So the name "open forum" is actually a lie.

Moreover he has published other posters' private emails on his blog without asking them (at least, one listener complained about this), while stating on his website that "all mails are confidential."

To put it in a simple and biblical term: He is a liar.

This is just another facet of his hypocrisy. While every nice Mormon housewife who raises a bunch of kids, giving all she can, being faithful, loving towards her whole family, always helpful to neighbors, nice and tolerant even to Non-Mormon people, this person whom anyone knowing her, would call an "angel" and imagine her to sit on an honored seat at Jesus' table, when she will one day pass away. Of course this woman, will burn in hell and "lose her soul forever", because she doesn't believe in the very notion of God that his only Prophet on earth, Eric Hoffman believes in, while a person like Eric, is lying, deceiving, condemning, betraying, and abusing. This person, Eric Hoffman, is of course saved by the grace of the Jesus of his own personal Bible interpretation, which all of humanity has to bow down to.

It is only my personal opinion on the topic, but this is my prophecy:

Eric, you will wonder on the day of judgment, you will wonder how many Mormons will actually enter into the glory of heaven, you will wonder how many homosexuals will enter into the glory of heaven, and then you will say:

"What, I should enter into that place? A place full of Catholics, Mormons, fags, Muslims,...? What the f... I'd rather go to hell." (Oops, you said the 4-letter word, Eric, that may cost you your soul forever...) And God, in his almighty mercy, will grant you this very last wish...

The aim of my post is not just to rant against Eric (OK, I am guilty on this point), but to warn everyone not to become a religious fanatic like him. As Samuel pointed out, some months ago, Eric was a nice and decent man, but in a short time, the circumstances and his belief in absolute truth, turned him into a religious fanatic ,who shares all the attributes of a cult member.

While it is true that Mormonism contains many bad aspects which justify Samuel categorizing it as being a cult, the LDS people are human beings like you and me, and many people are doing their best and living according to their ideals.
They don't drink coffee and alcohol, but who cares?

I think it is most appropriate just to criticize the negative aspects like indoctrination and restraint of personal freedom (e.g. by letting them wear corporate identity underwear), but accept and love them for the persons they are.
Instead of fighting against special denominations, we should focus on fighting against injustice, fanaticism and intolerance in every part of society. All these aspects are the evils of society, they are e.g. the roots of terrorism we nowadays experience in the Islamic world, but they can really be found everywhere.

Terrorism starts when you condemn your Mormon neighbor.
Terrorism starts when you as a Priesthood holder abuse your power.
Terrorism starts when you as an Atheist disrespect all believers.
Terrorism starts when tags like "Evangelical", "Baptist", "Mormon", "Catholic" become more important to you than the people behind these tags.
Be aware about the terrorism that starts in your own home.
By changing your own heart, we can make a start for more tolerance, mutual understanding, peace and harmony in the world.

Martin
=============================================

Well, there it is guys and I think Martin did an awesome job, articulating, exactly what is wrong with Eric Hoffman's and others fanatical views of absolute truth and condemnation of anyone that doesn't believe as they do. There is no place for this and it helps no one and it must be stood up to, whether they are Mormon, Christian or any other religion.

Thanks Martin for writing this and for allowing me to share it with Mormon Truth readers/listeners and I hope that people, especially those like Eric Hoffman, or those that support his condemning ways, will pause to ponder, if that is the best way to show people the true love, understanding and compassion, that they profess to stand for. Like Martin phrased perfectly, we simply want to "warn everyone not to become a religious fanatic like him", and that is our goal.

Best wishes everyone and as always, thanks for your support and Emails of encouragement, they mean a lot to me.

Samuel the Utahnite

The Perfect Example Of What Die-hard Mormons And Christians, Like Eric Hoffman, Think Will Happen To Everyone That Doesn't Follow Them!!

I thought that you guys would really enjoy this!! I added it permanently to my sidebar in all of my blogs, so that everyone can see how judgmental and condemning these people are. I don't speak of the average Mormon or Christian, rather the die-hards, like the Mormon Hierarchy and the Christian activists like Eric Hoffman, that say, "we will lose our soul forever", if we don't follow them. It is pathetic, but this video clip, is the perfect display of what they actually believe and how they feel toward us and the 70% + of the world, that doesn't believe as they do.

Welcome To Week 6, Of The Carnival Of The Veil!!

I first want to say that it is an honor to host this weeks "CARNIVAL OF THE VEIL" and I hope to do it again whenever needed. Thanks Gunner for starting this and I hope that it continues to grow and help a lot of people in the process, for a very long time.

Also, welcome everyone to Mormon Truth and if you haven't been here before, I hope that you will find some interesting posts to read or something that will be helpful to you. I started this blog at the end of last July and I have over 150 posts listed on many different subjects.

To start things off on this weeks carnival; I published part 3 of my interview with Joy, an ex-Mormon, this past week, which was podcast number 20. It stirred and riled up some folks, especially Jared, the Mormon Apologist with whom I did a 4 part interview, which also included Eric Hoffman, who is a mainstream Christian activist, and who has the Living Truth Podcast site.

So, what was it that got Jared and others, all fired up? Well, Joy tells the story of her Dad and how he is now a living, modern day, active, Mormon polygamist,( according to the Mormon Church and with approval from the Mormon Hierarchy) legally married or sealed in their "holy temple", to 2 living women, at the same time. I provide some great quotes, right out of the Bishop's handbook, that prove her story to be correct and to be right in line with Mormon teachings and regulations.

Jared will argue that if they aren't together, or in love, it's now invalid, and doesn't even matter, which is complete BS, because the Church puts anyone through hell, that is seeking a temple divorce or cancellation of their sealing, no matter how many years it has been. They want details and they try to dig up all the reasons the marriage failed, if there was sin involved, etc. It is disgusting!!

You can read more about this on my Mormon Truth Podcast blog and even listen to the podcast if you are interested. The more listeners, the merrier and spread this word. I have no bandwidth issues, so download away and encourage as many people as possible to download my podcasts.

One other real quick note that I'm excited to announce, is that in addition to my regular Mormon Truth Podcast, I have added a new podcast, which I will call "Mormon Truth Uncensored." It will not have any music, editing or frills, just me, talking about whatever is going on or on my mind, that very moment and will just be off the cuff. I hope that you will all enjoy it!!

It will give me a new found freedom and the ability to instantly respond, from anywhere that I am, in town or out of town, which is something that I haven't had with my normal podcast.

So, thanks everyone for your support and I hope that you enjoy this weeks "Carnival Of The Veil!!"

Now, here is a sampling of some other things that were discussed this past week in the Ex-Mormon world:
==========

Over on the "Beyond Ourselves blog", there is a pretty interesting debate going on. With all of the controversy over the Mormon Church opposition to the gay lifestyle and gay marriage, which included Russel M. Nelson going to DC and publicly speaking out about it, Hellmut wrote a great piece on "scapegoating gays", which is getting a lot of responses.

Also, this is certainly appropriate for discussion, especially after having heard last night, that the BYU professor, that wrote a great opinion piece in the Salt Lake Tribune a week or so ago, pleading for equality for homosexuals in the Church, has now been officially fired from BYU, for "disagreeing with the First Presidency."

Hellmut says:

Scapegoating refers to behavior that blames or sacrifices people for deeds that are not their own.

Connecting the crisis of the family to gays and lesbians meets that definition.

Therefore, I am deeply troubled by the efforts of our leaders to blame our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters for the travails of the family in our age. The notion that parenthood is more virtuous than loving outsiders contradicts the Sermon of the Mount (Matthew 5-7) and has lead us down a path where we once again pick on a weak minority.

Daniel Peterson responds with:

I won't, I think, have much time to pursue this, but I do want to respond to your kind invitation here, as well as to the utterly misguided things that you've said.....

and also:

I see little if any scapegoating of gays, in the sense you and I understand the word scapegoating, among Church members or in the leadership of the Church.Church leaders at all levels have long expressed disapproval of homosexual acts, but the disapproval is of those acts intrinsically. Or, in other words, to borrow your terminology, those engaging in homosexual acts reap the disapproval of the Church and its leaders "for deeds that are . . . their own (emphasis added)."

Hellmut is claiming that the LDS Church is scapegoating gays and Daniel Peterson, of course, disagrees. What a surprise eh?

To read more about this, and the post in full along with the 69 comments, or to leave a comment of your own and join the debate, please head on over to the "Beyond Ourselves blog."
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Over on the "Heart of Darqueness blog", Darque wrote about "Do what is right, let the consequence follow."

Darque says:

This is one of the cornerstones of mormonism; do the right thing regardless of circumstances.

Put your faith in the lard, take that step into the dark and find that there is light.Your family is dirt poor? Pay tithing and watch as the windows of heaven open and a myriad of blessings are poured out upon you.

Sell everything you have and make that 10 day bus journey to the temple, your life will be blessed.Etc etc etc. You know the drill.

To read this entire post, which is excellent, head on over to the "Heart Of Darqueness" and check it out and leave a comment. the final line of this post is what the Mormon Church is truly all about and I agree with Darque wholeheartedly.
==========

Over at "Eighthourlunch", Doug Humphries heads on up to the Celestial Kingdom, to interview Elijah Daniels, who waited to be with his wife again, for 57 years, only to find out that she had annulled their temple marriage and married some other dude, who was a Mormon General authority after Elijah had died. I think you guys will enjoy this.

Then he talks about something that was the topic of my last podcast with Joy, which is the Church's policy to allow men to be sealed to multiple living women(AKA Polygamy), while women can only be sealed to one man period.

The Mormon Church's official policy on the matter says:

“[LDS] Church policy allows for men to be sealed to more than one woman, if the second wife has not previously been sealed in marriage. If she has, the woman could only be sealed to a second husband if she asks for her previous sealing to be removed from church records.”

This is simply outrageous, as I have also pointed out and it proves that the Mormon Church does indeed believe strongly in modern day polygamy and in fact, they still practice it in their "holy temples", as we speak, with direct approval of the Mormon Prophet and The First Presidency.

To read this post, and join in the conversation, head on over to "Eighthourlunch" and check it out.
==========

This week, over on "Mormon2Catholic", the discussion was about the "Mormon Godhead" VS the "Christian/Catholic Trinity."

Cynthia says:

"I did a three part series of the Christian/Catholic concept of Trinity vs the Mormon concept of 'Godhead'. The Mormon point of view was taken from a speech given by Bruce McConkie to the students of BYU in I believe 1982."

I'm sure that Cynthia would love your comments and insights into her analysis and thoughts.

There is quite a difference in the Mormon view of the trinity/Godhead VS. the standard Christian/Catholic concept and I'm sure that you will all find this to be educational and interesting.

Here are the links to Cynthia's 3 part series, so go check it out:

Part 1--Godhead-vs-trinity-

Part 2--Godhead-vs-trinity-

Part 3-- Godhead-vs-trinity-
==========

Diane Lowe, from the "thought spot blog", wrote a great post about "religious blessings." Diane's Uncle had to go the ER and have surgery the other night. She describes her experience watching her Uncle's Stake President and Bishop, give him a blessing with consecrated oil. Diane is Catholic and so she shares her point of view from a Catholic standpoint.

She says:

I, obviously, would have been more comfortable with a priest, but then again, I'm Catholic, not LDS.

and also:

I don't want to be rude, or sound unappreciative, but the prayer was something slightly more elaborate than "Lord, help this man have a good night's sleep and watch over him in his operation tomorrow." It didn't comfort me at all, and I'm not exactly sure it comforted the other family members in the room. As for my uncle, he didn't tell me if the blessing comforted him or not. I walked away from the experience thoroughly unsatisfied.

You can head on over to "thought spot", in order to read her entire post and leave a comment. It was great for me to read Diane's point of view, from a Catholic standpoint, in order to see how other people from different religions, view the Mormon's "blessings for the sick and the afflicted", including the anointing.
==========

On the "Not a Mormon Blog", Matt writes a great post entitled, "Didn't Mormonism used to be a church?" He discusses how the Mormon Church has radically changed, just from the 1960's, when his family joined, until today.

I enjoyed this paragraph, where Matt sums up the Mormon Church perfectly:

I believe that it is possible that the history of the Mormon church is something like this:- Joseph Smith started the Mormon church as a combined joke and method of scamming money from people. After all, making your faithful followers take baths and then getting them to wear underwear with magic markings sewn on to them has to be a joke, right?

Matt points out that it used to be a Church and no longer is and I give Matt a big Amen on that statement!! To read this entire post, just head on over to "Not a Mormon" and enjoy.
==========

Finally, over on the "Viva Ned Flanders blog", Ned writes a post entitled, "Nice people don't make Mormonism true, but they don't hurt either." He describes a visit that he had the other night from 2 people from his local ward, after they had tracked him down, after 10 months of living there.

Ned says:

For perhaps the first time in my life, I felt comfortable around my would-be reactivators. I think it was because I knew that the possibility of me regaining my belief is zero. But that doesn't mean that I can't be social with people who still do believe. There is no reason people with a lot in common can't be friends without any religious overtones.

and:

The only time they even broached religion was to ask me if I wanted home teachers or if I wanted to be informed of ward activities (I swiftly nixed both ideas). I told them that I was completely uninterested in anything religious.

Some great points are made in this post, as he points out that there are nice people in the Mormon Church and that he no longer fears them, due to the security he feels in his non-belief. In order to read this entire post, check out "Viva Ned Flanders" and feel free to leave a comment.

Like Gunner says, regarding this last post:

Not all views need to be negative and his rang true.

Well everyone, that is this weeks "CARNIVAL OF THE VEIL" and I hope that everybody enjoyed it. Feel free to leave comments and we can all look forward to next weeks CARNIVAL.

Thanks again Gunner for creating this and thanks to everybody who has contributed each and every week so far, as well as those that have volunteered to host it.

Take care everyone,

Samuel the Utahnite

Do Mormons Preach That You Must Get Past Joseph Smith And Have His Approval, To Get Into Heaven? YES, They do!! Also, Was That A Nativity Scene?!!

Hey guys, I spent a lot of time and wrote a lot of posts over in Mormon Discussions back in February, March and April and I wanted to bring the best of those posts here, to my blog, where they belonged and should have been in the first place.

I spent way too much time over there pretty much preaching to the choir or TBM Apologists, when my time is much better spent here with you guys, on my blog, where I can more easily connect and help people and find those that really need the help. Or, I should say, where they can more easily find me and the things that I have written.

I will be putting those posts here on my blog over the next several days, as I think they will be very beneficial to a much larger audience here and helpful to those that are seeking the truth about Mormonism. On Mormon Discussions, or any chat site for that matter, your comments, no matter how great you think they are, or how long you spent researching and writing the posts, only have a very short shelf life, or as long as that particular post is hot.

After that, they fade into obscurity and do nobody any good. If your main desire is to help a lot of people and that is your main goal; by not transferring them to a blog, you are wasting your time and not reaching the people you should be.

So, after the thread is no longer hot, as I mentioned, your comments are pretty much lost, unless someone goes searching for everything you've said or stumbles across them while browsing old posts. Here on my blog however, they are archived, easily found through searches of my blog and also found through Internet search engines, like Google and MSN, Yahoo, etc.

I strongly encourage anyone and everyone, that has a lot to say on different chat sites, regarding Mormonism, to start your own blog, so that your comments can do more people more good than they will on just the chat site. I think chat sites like Mormon Discussions, are great, I'm just saying, start a blog and transfer the best of your comments over to your blog and you may help a lot more people. I've learned this back in my RFM posting days and then again, in Mormon Discussions the past few months.

I sincerely apologize to my readers for my absence and neglect of my blog, which was also due to all of the work that I've been putting into my podcast and the technical issues that I was having. Everything seems to be resolved for the time being, so I'm back and things should return to normal.

Trust me when I say that I have been continuing to read, study and prepare future posts and podcasts and talk to a lot of different people and TBMS to find out how they are thinking, without them knowing where I stand. I can pretend to be a TBM really well, after 30 plus years of practice.

Anyway, this particular post was written in response to a poster, "The Real LSD", who didn't believe that the "Joseph Smith Nativity scene", was really any sort of nativity scene at all. In my response to "The Real LSD", I shared the quotes about Joseph Smith being "the only way into heaven" to try and help clarify, that the Mormons have deified their beloved Prophet Joseph Smith.

First I will share the original comment that pretty much started the discussion and begged my response and then I will share my responses and "The Real LSD's" responses. There were others that weighed in on the subject, but this was mainly a discussion or debate, between myself and "The Real LSD", since it was my assertion and original post that was under attack.

There were several people that agreed with "The Real LSD"(mostly TBM Apologists) and several that agreed with me.

The Real LSD said:

1st comment-I honestly don't see this as any sort of nativity scene.

2nd comment-Here are my comments about the scene in question, the placard and the comments...picking up on the spirit of Samuel:

It's not a nativity scene. It's a damn historical scene. It is no different than viewing Lincoln's cradle. Please try to get out more, okay? His stinking birthday is in December. The placard gives glory to the savior and encourages the viewer to think about the "messenger" that brought about the lousy restoration. If Moses were born in early December and the cradle was a basket...would we be having this inane conversation? I say no. I am no fan of Joseph Smith or the LDS church. Quite the opposite is true. I do see this issue as outright hype by critics. LSD

My response to the 1st comment entitled-Give me a break guys, it's a damn nativity scene!!:

First I want to say that I updated the post that "The Real LSD" posted here. It needed an update after the discussion going on here and for those that don't believe or consider the "Joseph Smith nativity scene" to be a "nativity scene." Just what the hell was it? What do you guys consider it to be? A coincidental, Joseph Smith, as a baby infant in his crib, in 1805, right after he was born scene? Give me a damn break!!

Anyway, I updated that post at the top, for those that are interested. Also, look up nativity in Websters, it may help you out a bit.

Also, here was a special Christmas tribute I did, to the greatest man to ever live on earth, according to himself of course. This link includes some amazing, stunning and beautiful shots of the plastic doll, I mean Joseph Smith, as a small infant, laying in his little crib, back in 1805, in Sharon, Vermont. Isn't he so cute and adorable? Oh man, it brings tears to my eyes!! PRAISE TO THE MAN!!

Here is part of a post I wrote on December 23rd, which was a 200th birthday tribute.

According to the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith deserves all of the praise he's getting this time of year. After all, we cannot be saved without him...

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by Joseph Smith; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him."- 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142, Apostle George Q. Cannon quoted

"Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the validity of this glorious First Vision. ... Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which he spoke is true. This is the hinge on which turns the gate that leads to the path of salvation and eternal life."
- The Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign Mag., Nov. 1998, pp.70-71

[There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"- The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought! But it is true"-The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91

"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"- The Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312

(You see that TBMS and Apologists? That is where us antis or EX-Mormons, get the idea that we are condemned, and anti-Christs, or Sons of Perdition!! It came from one of your beloved Prophets of fraud!! At least we have laws now to protect us from "BLOOD ATONEMENT.")

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
- The Apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

"It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus, Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk."-
The Prophet Brigham Young, History of the Church, Vol. 7, p.40-41

These and other teachings are why so many people say the Mormon Church is not Christian:

http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm

What are non-Mormons to make of how Mormons adore Joseph Smith at Christmas time?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And you Mormons wonder why people think you worship Joseph Smith more than Jesus Christ, and are not Christians? I say that the Mormon Hierarchy are Smithians, not Christians!! Most TBMS probably aren't even aware of some of these teachings, but the fraudulent Mormon cult Hierarchy sure knows, don't they? For those that don't believe that last year was dedicated to worshiping Joseph Smith; you need to re-connect with reality!!

So have at it Bishop Lee and all you other pathetic Mormon Apologists. Explain to us Anti-Christs, how these statements aren't valid or how we are greatly exaggerating or distorting them. I can feel the crap rising already and the vultures are circling. Maybe Piranhas would be a better word describing someone like Bishop Lee. I can't wait to hear your ridiculous excuses and pathetic reasoning...

Here is the link to the video, for those that feel the desperate need to relive that great glory of Joseph's 200th anniversary party of his birth, once again:

I loved the choice of music for the show. They kicked it off with, "We thank thee O God for a Prophet", followed by "Joseph Smith's First Prayer", "The Seer, Joseph the Seer", then "A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief", which John Taylor sang to Joseph before he was killed. Then, the choir went nuts with "Ode to Joseph" and then they brought it home with the all time favorite/cult classic, "Praise to the man." Now, that song is truly a CULT favorite with a strong CULT following!!

Good thing they don't and didn't worship him though, they were just "revering" him. I guess it's like the whole, "SACRED", not "SECRET" BS. When I went through the temple before the changes in 1990, it was SECRET!! Of course, that word, among a plethora of other things, including the penalties, was deleted by the Mormon God/Jesus/Adam, in 1990.

Of course, it wasn't really a "change", just an incredible, faith increasing/promoting moment, that both showed and proved, once again, that the Mormon Church receives modern day revelation from an ever changing God who kicks it on Kolob. It also had nothing to do with the 3,000 + surveys they sent out regarding what people liked and didn't like in the temple ceremony, did it?

That Mormon God sure is a funny dude, isn't he? You would think that an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, perfect being, as he supposedly is, wouldn't need to constantly make so many changes and correct past errors and mistakes. I'm sure that he pretends to screw up and change things, just as a test and trial of everyone's faith, right? That would be the Mormon Apologetic spin.

Of course, it couldn't be his Prophets, Seers and Revelators that are screwing up, because they aren't EVER allowed to lead the Church astray, under any conditions. Adam...I mean God, would remove them before he would allow that to happen, right? Maybe when they spoke that BS on several occasions, they were just speaking as men, right? Of course they were....LOL!! Is it just me that's having a good belly laugh right now? Ha Ha!!

Please allow me to close with some incredibly inspirational and familiar words:

Praise to the Man

31243, Hymns, Praise to the Man, no. 27
(I love how they list it as a song to sing VIGOROUSLY....LOL!!)

1.Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

[Chorus]
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.

Text: William W. Phelps, 1792–1872

Music: Scottish folk song

Best wishes everyone, especially those of you that are CULTISTS and don't even know it!! May you somehow, someday, wake up out of your brainwashed slumber and see the light and have freedom!!

Now, here was my response to the 2nd comment entitled-Are you serious LSD?:

"Real LSD",

Do you think that they ever even considered, for a second, setting up a "Jesus Nativity scene" in the Admin building, instead of a Joseph Smith "damn historical scene" that "is no different than viewing Lincoln's cradle." Well, since he was greater than Jesus Christ, according to Joseph himself, I highly doubt it!!

Maybe you need to get out more LSD!! Did you go down there and personally see it, as I did?

The placard states:

We are beneficiaries of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, a work which had its earthly commencement with the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith, in the hills of Vermont on a December day in 1805. As we commemorate the birth of the baby in Bethlehem, the Savior of the world, may we also remember his messenger, Joseph Smith and rejoice in his life and sacrifice.

Larry C. Porter-1978

LSD said:

Quote:

The placard gives glory to the savior and encourages the viewer to think about the "messenger" that brought about the lousy restoration. If Moses were born in early December and the cradle was a basket...would we be having this inane conversation?

LSD, are you actually comparing Joseph Smith to Moses? For those Christians that believe in the Bible, that would be blasphemous!! Likewise, saying that he was greater than Jesus Christ(as Joseph Smith claimed), or second only to Jesus Christ(John Taylor), is equally blasphemous, to those that believe in Jesus Christ. I just hope that you aren't actually making that same comparison to Moses, as Kim Clark did, when Hinckley called him to be the President of BYU-Idaho and leave Harvard.

Kim Clark Post

(I actually got an Email from his Son on this post, who wasn't too happy, but was still very respectful and he just wanted to express how he felt)

First of all, the entire purpose of the scene, was glory to Joseph Smith, when it says, "We are beneficiaries of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, a work which had it earthly commencement with the birth of the Prophet Joseph Smith, in the hills of Vermont on a December day in 1805."

Then it states, "As we commemorate the birth of the baby in Bethlehem, the Savior of the world, may we also remember his messenger, Joseph Smith and rejoice in his life and sacrifice.

First of all, according to the "most correct of any book on earth", Jesus was born in Jerusalem, not Bethlehem. OOPS!! Secondly, there is nothing to rejoice in, about this scumbag Smith, especially, his life and sacrifice. What sacrifice?

He robbed and defrauded people of their money(Treasure hunting, bank failure) wives and dignity, not to mention virginity(D&C 132), if you were one of his 14,15 or 16 year old wives. Joseph Smith was a criminal and a sick predatory pedophile, plain and simple!!

Also, worth mentioning, is that the quote they used, wasn't even something current from one of God's anointed Prophets or Apostles, rather a quote from the 1978 Ensign from an obscure guy named Larry C. Porter, (Ph.D. in History of Religion, Brigham Young University) who is Professor Emeritus of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University and someone that contributes over at our favorite place, DCP's playground, FARMS.

Deseret book

Wouldn't you think that God's current blessed, inspired "mouthpieces", could have come up with something on their own?

Did anyone bother to listen to the opening prayer of the "Joseph Smith is next to God" birthday party on December 23rd? Anybody notice how Packer Praised Emma as Joseph's WIFE, singular, with no mention of the other wives at all? They are truly living in a fantasyland of fraud and deception and they know it!!

Packer said:

Our holy father in heaven, on this sacred occasion, we thank thee for the privilege in being here and doing honor to the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Prophet of the restoration......

.......We remember as well, in this commemoration of Joseph Smith the Prophet, his wife, Emma Hale Smith, elect lady, his sweetheart, wife and mother of his children. We pray that uh, her memory will likewise be blessed......

Once again, here is the link, for anyone that either needs to hear it again, to be able to engage and ignite your bosom, or for those that want to torture themselves.....LOL!!

Usually we agree on most things LSD, but to be honest, I have no clue why you can't make the connection on this one, when it's so obvious and clear. You have to consider the whole picture, the whole year, the birthday bashes and celebrations, the gigantic murals of Joseph Smith, kids dancing all over stadiums and then this "nativity scene." Would it be better to call it a "birth scene." Does that work? Like I said, maybe you are the one that needs to get out more, not me. Maybe the Fairboard is causing you to be sucked into the cult thinking and is melting your brain a bit....J/k!!

No hard feelings LSD, sometimes we just have to agree to disagree, and go our separate ways, as this is obviously one of those times. By the way, I know that you aren't a big Joseph Smith fan. If we can't agree that it is a "nativity scene", can we at least agree that it's ridiculous and tasteless, when they consider themselves to be Christians and deny "worshiping Joseph Smith?" By the way, what do you consider a "nativity scene" to be LSD? I'm just curious. Is Jesus Christ the only person that would qualify as a "nativity scene?"

Best wishes,

Samuel

This was the next response by "The Real LSD":

Samuel,

I will answer you this way. I am simply telling you what I see. I see a historic scene commemorating the 200th anniversary of the December birth of a man whose theology and methods I strongly disagree with set up on a college campus.

If this were set up outside the temple, ward or stake, with no presentation of the birth of Jesus Christ, then I would take exception.

It is perfectly understandable to me that you strongly disagree with my opinion on this. Your views are based on years of service in the LDS Church which I have none, an awakening of awareness that led you to reject the church which I have not experienced and a sense of betrayal that I can only try to empathize with.

No, I have not been to BYU nor was I tuned in for any of the JS birthday celebrations. So yes, you know more about that than I do, though I do think I see the "big picture".

This much I know. I have LDS friends in real life and also LDS, ex-LDS and questioning LDS e-friends, all of whom I try to offer my friendship and respect to. Some are TBM's, some are uncertain about their church and some, like you, have become a strong voice of criticism of their former church, Craig Criddle (whom I've known for years) comes immediately to mind.

On this board, I very much appreciate your efforts and the intent behind them. I admire what drives your passion to expose the LDS church in order to influence people away from the church. On the other side of that is a Kerry Shirts, whom I also admire on account of his loyalty to his church and his willingness to devote his time and efforts to defending what he loves.

Are you asking me to choose between you? Samuel, I choose ALL of you. Each one of you, a Criddle, a Samuel, a Shirts, has something to offer me personally in understanding the LDS people and what drives them. You all are on different paths, that's for sure, but I have learned something about the people of Mormonism from each one of you. I wouldn't trade those insights for anything!

Do I need to agree with someone in order to support or admire their efforts? Ask Criddle or Shirts if I've ever disagreed with them or they with me. Disagreement isn't the end of the line between people, it is a chance to grow. Hopefully, as this board continues on, you and I will learn and grow from our participation here.

I then responded with this post entitled-Thanks LSD:

It's all good LSD, no worries. I do have to say though, that this setup, was not just on "a college campus", it was "Jesus' personal college campus", the baby, pride and joy of the Mormon Church. As the "Road to Hana" mentioned; I didn't see any other "nativity scenes", setup on campus, namely one based on Jesus Christ. I know that they never had one when I went to school there and I didn't see one this past year, but maybe I missed it and somebody can enlighten us with "further light and knowledge."

Also, why would where it was setup, change what it actually is? It is what it is, right? That one confuses me. This is the "one and only true college of Jesus Christ", isn't it? Shouldn't the college that is owned and operated by Jesus Christ, through direct revelation to his Prophets, Seers and Revelators(aka-Board of Directors), place more emphasis on Jesus Christ, than Joseph Smith? Then again, it is named "BRIGHAM YOUNG" university, so maybe not. I guess it makes sense that they would put Joseph over Jesus, doesn't it?

The BYU mission statement says:

Quote:

The mission of Brigham Young University--founded, supported, and guided by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--is to assist individuals in their quest for perfection and eternal life.

All students at BYU should be taught the truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Any education is inadequate which does not emphasize that His is the only name given under heaven whereby mankind can be saved. Certainly all relationships within the BYU community should reflect devout love of God and a loving, genuine concern for the welfare of our neighbor.

I would say that putting up a Joseph Smith "birth, nativity or historical birth scene", over say, Jesus Christ, at Christmas time, When you claim to be uber Christian, is a little peculiar, especially for a Church that says, in their personal college's "Mission Statement", "Any education is inadequate which does not emphasize that His(Jesus Christ) is the only name given under heaven whereby mankind can be saved." (Please re-read the Joseph Smith is the only way into heaven statement above, if any of you still believe that the Church believes it is only through Jesus Christ.)

I guess, that in reality, since they consider Joseph Smith to be so close to Jesus Christ, at least 2nd, but 1st, according to Joseph, that I guess it's a wash, as they are almost one in the same. That is what I'm talking about.

Just for fun, let me end with Joseph's greater than Jesus quote, which I never get tired of sharing. Of course, we all know that he really didn't mean that and was just "boasting", due to the specific group of people he was talking to, at the time. LOL!!

Quote:

Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on the top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet. You know my daily walk and conversation. I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people.How I do love to hear the wolves howl! When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.

What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience
(History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408-412).


Isn't it just wonderful? Wasn't Joseph Smith just wonderful, next to deity, greater than Jesus Christ himself? Come to think of it, if he was truly that wonderful, according to himself and others, then he did earn and deserve that "birth scene" or whatever you want to call it, at BYU. I think they did the right thing and I stand corrected.....NOT!! Just having a little fun!! Of course, personally, I don't care what the hell they do, I'm just trying to hold them to their supposed, "We are Christians" standard and expose their hypocrisy to the world.

Take care LSD and best wishes. You are a great asset to this board and I also hope that you will be around for a long time. Trust me LSD and others, when I say that this church has destroyed and is still destroying and separating families everyday, as I write this very post in fact. As long as they continue to do what they do, mainly, sending out 50,000 + missionaries, to deceive and defraud people into their cult, through lies and deception, I will continue to do what I'm do, with the TRUTH.

Samuel

And finally, "The Real LSD", responded with

Would you like me to argue this post with you, Samuel?

LSD

I felt no need to further the discussion, as I had said all that I needed to say and felt that I had made my point crystal clear. If after everything I said, you can't see it as a nativity scene; what can I do? In the end, of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I think the evidence is pretty clear and in my opinion, you'd have to be fairly dense or blinded, to not be able to see it for what it was...A DAMN NATIVITY SCENE!!

Take care everyone and it feels good to be back writing on my blog, which I love doing and I'll try not to be away so long again in the future. Thanks for your patience and Emails of support during this time!!

Samuel the Utahnite