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Samuel the Utahnite
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About Me
- Samuel the Utahnite
- I was a faithful member of the Mormon Church for over 30 years and I never doubted that it was true, not even for a second. I served an honorable two year mission in Argentina, went to BYU, was married in the temple and about 6 years ago, I began a journey that led me to the truth about Mormonism; that it is a complete lie and total fraud!! I only want to help others to discover what I have found and to know the "REAL TRUTH" and then be able to better deal with the pain of their discovery. I'm now an Ex-Mormon and an Atheist. As I always like to say..THE TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE, because TRUTH IS FREEDOM!!
19 comments:
Samuel, I don't understand why you are so mad at us evangelicals.
Isn't the purpose of your blog to help people out of Mormonism?
Now that we are trying the same thing, that is, to help people who are caught up in this cult, instead of supporting us, instead of helping us, you get mad at us.
I don't understand your motives.
Anyway, I don't think that your exposal will have much of an impact, as the average Mormon does neighter read your blog nor the FAIR board, which is only read by a few apologetics.
Samuel, we are on your side, helping people who are deceived by the fraud of the LDS church.
Give us a chance.
If you cannot be friends, at least make peace with Eric Hoffman, whom I know to have the best of intentions.
And you will see that after tomorrow, many people will leave the LDS church and its deception.
Terrence Malick
Terrence,
To be honest, the chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert. Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage. So don't get your hopes up but we'll see what happens tomorrow.
Hi Ray ,
I was just reading your article on Church Tithes etc on your blog .
I was looking at the churches donation record to Humanitarian Aid . According to LDS.org they donated $95 million dollars in 2004 to Humanitarian Aid .
Divide that between 12 million supposed members and it works out at $8 dollars per member for the year .
If you take out 6 million inactives and possible 2 million kids , that still makes it $24 dollars per member for that year on average .
It's hardly a staggering amount and definately not as Dramatic as the Headline church figure would suggest . Although it's really good that Mormons donate additional to their Tithes in this fund . But shows that helping the needy in these countries is not a priority .The priority seems to be funding itself as a corporation .
I don't want to critisize the ordinary Mormon though , the demands on their finances are very high and I too donate to the church's Humanitarian Aid and Fasts BUT NOT TITHE . I sometimes wonder that the average member is just being exploited.The presure to fund everything is so great .
I'm only an investigator and I brought up the 'Burning' issue ( mentioned in D&C and in the Gospel Principles book )in Gospel Principles sunday School class once . I asked does it mean Non Tithe Payers will be burned ? .. literally set on fire ! Of course no one gave an answer as usual .
I could see how weaker vulnerable people would get threatened easily from this .
I have found that despite everyone encouraging me to ask questions , they all too soon decide they don't have any answers to most of my questions .The usual excuse is we will know when the veil is removed.What will we know ? probably that mormonism was a con ! lol
Tithing is a good way to fund the church but many do get into financial difficulties . The church is so wealthy it can spend $1.5 billion on property development supposedly without using tithe money . So they must own alot of income producing assetts that members don't know about !
Does anyone ever inquire or ask . I ask but no one seems to know . I'm suspicious when finances are kept from the average member .If I was a Tithe payer , I'd like to have a copy of the main accounts including how much goes in Wages and expenses for the Hierarchy and others . They always are surrounded by luxury and expensive surroundings when I see them .
Elder Joseph
Thanks for that comment. Would you mind posting it on my comment board so that readers there (if I even have any) can see it?
And I would say that $24 per member (per year) sounds about right. Each fast Sunday they ask members to go without a meal or two and then donate the cost of the missed meals to charity. In my opinion, it is a good program. In a way, it's good that it is funded by the members, but then the church has no right to claim credit for it. Even if they matched, dollar for dollar, what the members donate it would double the amount of help they could provide, and then the church could claim partial credit for the donations. But like I said, they are a non-profit organization and so they are not in need of any tax breaks; therefore, they donate nothing out of their own pockets.
No one asks. They just assume that every penny is spent under divine revelation. Money for most people is hard to come by and if I'm going to hand over 10% to anyone, I damn well want to know where it's going.
Hi Sam,
It's Keith, from the podcast last week. I saw this headline, http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=2978283&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312, and tought you would get my twisted take on it. Maybe the way to end the Mormon church, is to get Moron...um...er, Moroni hooked on latte's, and then the rest will adopt it as doctrine and follow suit. They'll be so jazzed up on the 'feen that they won't be able to sit still long enough to attend anymore.
Just a thought.
Friends
Keith
I hope I get one of those DVDs tomorrow.
Even though I'm not an evangelical or "born again" christian, I get a kick out of anything that exposes the mormon church as a complete and utter fraud.
I sincerely doubt that many TBMs will bother to watch the DVD though...they're programed to avoid anything not "faith promoting" and will toss it in the trash, just like Ray said.
Ray said:
the chances of very many Mormons leaving the church to become "real Christians" is very low. It's just like someone giving you a Buddhist DVD and expecting you to convert.
The difference between our campaign and a Buddhist handing me a DVD is that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior, while the Buddha was a rich kid who was sick of his boring life in the palace.
As Jesus Christ himself will touch the LDS people's heart when they watch the DVD, many will turn away from their church and enter into the body of Christ. Through the power of the holy spirit, they will be healed from their ignorance and will get to know the true Christ.
Believe me, Mormon indoctrination is VERY STRONG and if they receive a DVD that goes against their church, 99% of them will end up in the garbage.
Mormon indoctrination might be strong, but Mormon opinion is often rather wavering.
Take a look at a recent Salt Lake Tribune article:
"Utah's LDS no longer firmly back Iraq war"
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_5517138
You see that the LDS church and its members are flip-flopping.
Instead of keeping an opinion to the end, they waver.
So they will to with their faith.
On the other hand, evangelicals and other true Christians like baptists are strong in their determination that it was good to invade Iraq, because after the war is over and peace and democracy comes to the Iraq and Afghanistan, it is possible to send missionaries there to bring them into the flock of Christ. Most of the casualties are not Christian but Muslims; they are but pawns in the chess game of life.
So you have those flip-flopping Mormons and us Christians who stand strong in the Lord.
Lets see how we will do today.
Have a nice sunday.
Terrence
If I send the address of my TBM relatives would you send the DVD?
Terrence,
Your comparison between Jesus and Buddah is interesting. The only reason Sidartha was a spoiled rich kid was because his father tried to hide the truth of illness, disease, and death from him. As soon as he discovered the truth, he gave up his princely life.
My question is, if Jesus is the true lord and Buddah is just a bratty kid, why do Buddhists outnumber Christians by a large amount?
You are entitled to believe whatever you want. Seeing as how I used to be Mormon, (I assume you have not) I can tell you that the only spirit they will feel is the spirit of the devil trying to lead them astray from the true church.
Their comparison will be much like yours... "Our Jesus speaks to living prophets, while your Jesus is silent in heaven. Besides, your church has apostatized and is lead by men."
I am not meaning to disagree with you. If a few Mormons find your truth to be better than their truth then great. I am just trying to help you understand how Mormons think. Just remember this, they believe their religion just as much (if not more) than you believe in yours.
Good luck today. I'm hoping a DVD ends up on my porch.
Yeah, okay "Terrence
Malick"...LOL!! 10,000-25,000...LMAO!!
Hey, I'll let Eric call me a liar AGAIN and then I'll release the audio AGAIN, proving who the REAL liar is, AGAIN. How many times does it take? Oh wait, you don't really care, do you?
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
Terrence-IMDB
More on Terrence, including a picture
What an honor to have a 2 time Oscar nominee and best director from the Cannes Film festival posting on my blog. Isn't that awesome?!! Wow, and to think I thought he was busy with his movies and stuff...LOL!! And who knew that this guy was best buds with Eric Hoffman too...WOW!!
It looks like our nutjob posters are back, using different names now. Jose, that you? Billsjane? Eric? Aaron?
Notice that they don't have a blog or anything set up? Anyway, just thought I'd let everyone know the true identity and accomplishments of "Terrence Malick", the die-hard Evangelical, who is so pumped about this DVD project.
It's my advice we that we shouldn't respond to anymore of his comments and encourage him, since he's insincere and a liar and just one of these anons that's fucking with us all once again, pretending to be something and someone that they obviously aren't. I guess it's time to go create yet another name...get a life guys...seriously!!
Samuel
The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS! Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so.
What proof do you have that Jesus is the true lord and Buddah isn't? Just because the Bible says so? Come on! You preach that the Mormon's scripture isn't true, but they all believe it because it says it's true. Do you start to see how your religious beliefs are really no different than theirs?
The problem, is that Mormons and Christians (if there really is a difference) both believe in a damn myth. Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd?
People don't float up and down from heaven.
People can't walk on water.
No one can command the wind and the waves.
Dead people don't come back to life.
If you bother using one ounce of brain power, you will realize that it is a load of bull shit! Sorry, but there's no other way to say it. It's a lie and it has never been proven true and will never be proven true. Jesus will not make his grand appearance at the second coming. I wonder what the excuses will be in 300-400 years from now? How come Jesus hasn't come yet? I'm sure there will be a million and one reasons to justify and explain it away.
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism. You believe in lies and the more you defend them, the more you look like an idiot. Again, spouting off a load of, said so, scriptures is not going to have one bit of effect here. Do you have any other argument besides the Bible? Sadly, no. The Bible is thousands of years old and has no relavence at all, to us today. NONE. That is why your argument is so weak. Because it is not only based on bull shit, it is based on VERY OLD bull shit.
Hello Samuel,
hello Ray,
10,000-25,000...LMAO!!
We will see next sunday who is right, you mocking Christianity or our Savior Jesus Christ who himself led many Mormons out of their cult into true Christianity.
By the way guys, here are a couple links to our famous Evangelical "Terrence Malick."
Yes, my name is Terrence Malick, and NO, I am not the famous film director, nor am I closely related to him.
Can you imagine that several people share the same name?
If you don't, go to youtube and have a search for our friend Eric Hoffman. You will find people from their early teens to their eighties. Or go and visit all Joseph Smiths in America and tell them: "No, you are not Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith died centuries ago." How childish you are.
Malick is an old family name, formerly written Malek or also Melek. It is also related to the hebrew word "Melech" which means king. It once also was a title of one of the pagan gods, nowadays rendered as "Moloch" (Amos 5:26).
There are many Maleks or Malicks in America, especially many immigrated after World War II.
Now to Ray:
The thing about all the scriptures you quoted, Terrence, is that they are all based upon whether or not the Bible is true. Most of us here now believe that the Bible is BS!
The bible is God's Own word, it is holy and inerrant, it speaks truth.
Therefore, quoting out of it will gain you nothing. In fact, it just makes you look like a gullible sucker. You believe anything the Bible says, just because it says so.
Of course I do, because I am a Christian. Our faith is based on the gospel proclaimed in the bible. Without the bible, we have nothing.
Jesus may have been a real man but stories evolve and Jesus went from being a man to being a saviour and a god. It is impossible for anyone to walk on water and I'll NEVER believe it until I see it. Why should I believe in BS that is based on claims that are absurd?
Jesus himself said that he was God, that God and himself are one person. Also, other people testify that Jesus was God, not a mere human being:
Then saith [Jesus] to Thomas "Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing."
And Thomas answered and said unto him "My Lord and my God".(John 20:27-28)
Christianity is a cult no different than Mormonism.
This hurts me very much, comparing this cult Satan created with the True Church Jesus himself created.
It is like comparing black and white and seeing no difference. How blind are you?
I didn't know that this is an atheist blog, but from what Ray stated, this seems to be the case.
I feel pity for you, Samuel and Ray, for you don't know Christ.
Terrence.
Hi ,
If anyone is interested in the Evangelical DVD which was targetted at mormon households in Utah on Sunday the 25th March , here is a link to view it
http://www.goodnewsforlds.org/video.html
I think its quite good and should make some Mormons think a little if they are open minded enough .
I think its a noble effort on behalf of Evangelicals who truly believe the Mormons are deceived .
I think Mormonism is a Con myself .
ElderJoseph
The Bible currently says that Jesus said he was god and people called him god. But this is a book of which the origins are unknown and of which there are several hundreds of years of gaps in the history of the New Testament. A lot can change over a 2000 year period, don't you think? So how do we really know that Jesus said anything the Bible says he does? In fact, how do we know Jesus even lived at all?
Here's an interesting piece of information... Jesus' language was Aramic, so we would expect the original documents of the New Testament to be written in Aramic, right? Although the original manuscripts are forever lost, experts agree that the original language was Greek. Now isn't it a bit odd that it was originally written in a language that Christ did not speak? If Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John knew Jesus personally, we must assume they spoke his language (Aramic) and would have written it in that language to preserve it they way he said it. This strongly shows that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John did not know Jesus personally, AND there is evidence that the gospels were written some 150-200 years after the time of Christ. Think about it, each book says "The Gosepel According to so and so". It doesn't say, "The Gospel BY so and so!" The evidence for what I have shared is overwhelming. And there is much more!
I have no trouble with Evangelical Christians, or anybody, for that matter passing out DVD's to people.
What I do have a problem with is Evangeical Christians, or anybody for that matter, telling people to do things their way or go to hell.
Why can't people just get along?
It doesn't matter if Jesus exists or not, if the LDS church or the Evangelical churches are true or not...isn't it time to let go of all this nastiness and begin feeling love and compassion towards one another?
I think Samuel is doing a huge service to Mormons on the edge of leaving by exposing the truth. I never get the feeling that he is telling Mormons how to live their lives, but rather how HE sees the lies and fraud of the Mormon Church.
He is not telling people what to believe--he is telling people how HE believes.
For Christians to tell people that they will burn in hell if they do not believe in Jesus does not seem one bit Christlike.
In fact, the more I listen to Christians discuss what Christ would or would not do, I do not want anything to do with their Christ. He seems mean and vindictive.
I would love to see peace and harmony and love. That I do not see in any church, not Mormon, not Christian, not any of them.
I have come to see religion as a way to control people, not a way to love and enlightenment.
Bonnie,
Religion is supposed to be all about love, but I have to agree with you completely... religion creates differences and contention.
Remember John Lennon's song Imagine. If people would just forget their differences and love each other, we can't imagine how much better the world would be.
I guess we are all guilty to a degree, especially me. In my last few comments I called Terrence a "gullible sucker" so, Terrence, if you're still here, I apologize for saying that.
Samuel wrote:
Why can't people just love their Jesus/God, be happy and not have to go out of their way to condemn everyone that doesn't believe what they believe, which they claim to be "the one and only truth?"
Some while ago, I have read about "Memetics". You probably all know evolution theory.
An animal is born, grows up, reproduces with another individuum. The child then is a mixture of its parents. Sometimes, due to mutation, the genetic code changes.
Over the millenia, the species changes, new species are born, others die out.
Memetics is the application of this concept to ideas. Ideas are "born" in someone's mind. They "create children" if a person tells another about this idea. Some ideas die out, some mingle with others, some become strong and influencial.
It is crucial for an idea to spread, or it would die out.
Lets apply this to religions.If there was not a way to transfer the religion from one individuum to another, the religion would soon die out. This is what happened for example to the greek pantheon.
I guess that noone (?) nowadays believes in the greek gods.
How can religions prohibit their own death? They have to reproduce and spread. They perform this in two main ways:
1) Parents raise their children in their religion. Thus, a tradition is established. Mind that this is especially good for religions when people have many children. Guess why Mormonism promotes child-bearing and rearing so much?
2) Missionaries convert people who do not yet believe. This is another major means to growth. Christianity became influencial mainly through missionaries. Nowadays, the Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons are very active in proselytizing.
You see, a religion needs to apply methods to "reproduce", that is, to gain new members.
One trick is to promise a nicer heaven if you believe in that particular religion. What is so special about this is that believing is quite easy.
You don't have to behave well, you just have to believe in Jesus, that's all. And that's quite simple.
To conclude, those fanatic people who believe their religion is the only truth are but containers for ideas. The ideas of religions are like parasites which feast in their victim's body. In order to "infect" more people, the idea urges its victim to convert others by promising a better future in heaven.
So people like Sandra Tanner or Eric Hoffman are not guilty themselves, they are rather to be seen as being ill, ill with a parasite which has entered their brains and which tries to promulgate, using its hosts.
I don't know if it makes sense to you, guys.
Just my thoughts.
And sorry for my strange english, I am japanese.
Hideyosi Takada.
I do not see that big of problem with the Christians and their DVD, the tactics are no worse the bad things I was told to do on my mission. As long as Mormons are out there bothering people like me don't these guys have a right to annoy the Mormons. For the record I do not agree with anyone pushing their belief's on someone else be they Christian or Mormon.
My two cents: I see no problem with the handing out of DVD's. I agree that it sounds like some of their methods are a little shady or dishonest, which is what I think bothers Samuel most - that and the condemning. I haven't seen the DVD, so I don't know how condemning it is. Simply talking about the Bible and asking for a change of faith isn't all that condemning, but threatening hellfire and eternal damnation is ... so, I guess we'll see what it says (I'll have to watch later).
In my opinion, the Mormons are deluded, and the Christians are deluded. However, that being said ... I have little to no sympathy for the mormon cause in this incident because:
a) Mormons harrass people constantly, and I sure as hell wish that someone had left a DVD on my door instead of two missionaries that converted me to the cult. I'd take that anyday!
b) Mormons are just as deceptive in their tactics (with the missionaries) ... not telling the whole truth, "milk before meat", etc., and converting people to a faith which turns out to be 180 degrees of a turnabout from what they expected.
So no, I don't have sympathy for the mormons. They think everyone else is going to hell or the 'terrestrial kingdom' for eternity (along with all sorts of awful ppl from history), they decieve and manipulate at your door, they harrass you with phone calls, visits and coming when unwanted ... so I don't give a damn about a DVD.
I will agree that the methods sound a little underhanded, and from the sound of it - these evangical nutjobs are certainly hypocrites and not ones to be preaching (from what I know of Samuel's dealings with them), which I think makes this even more ironic and stupid.
I'm glad if they get some people out of Mormonism ... if they turn to the cult of Christianity, so be it.
I think Samuel's annoyance comes in at the characters who are involved with this, who sound like absolute idiots lacking compassion and respect.
I don't respect anyone less for handing out the DVD's, but if they are having dealings with these characters ... then yes, my respect must drop somewhat.
At the end of the day, Christianity and Mormonism are emotional crutches used by weak people. Some days I want a crutch to lean on too, but I instead use my common sense, intellect and my own personal morality and love of my neighbour.
I just wish that everyone would gather the courage to desire TRUTH, research the facts, and accept the obvious conclusions. Maybe then we could progress into a truly civilized society.
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